Problems With Scales

[USMCDOC]

Ok.. i received a new FX-120i today.. i am getting the same problematic results with it as i did with my Denver Inst TP-153 (Strain Gauge).. they are flicking back and fourth, as much as 15 digits in either direction (+ or -).. it is driving me absolutely nuts.. i can't tell you how much i am disheartened right now, thinking that my Denver was going bad, only to see the A&D doing the exact same thing..

 

[jlow]

Any chance it's your power supply or an unstable platform? Since you saw the same thing with the TP-153. Never seen this with my FX-120i.

 

[USMCDOC]

Platform is as solid as a rock.. if you mean my electrical power coming into the house.. i am running off an outlet that is not being used by anything else..

 

[USMCDOC]

Ok.. i am not a electrician.. but it appears that i have a electrical field issue of some kind.. i guess i will need to have a dedicated shielded line put in to the reloading table..

 

[jlow]

Any old fluorescence lights close by? Would suggest you take the scale and try it at another location or a neighbors house just to preclude something wrong with either scale. Nothing can be discounted especially if you have an old house....

I think I made the same suggestion previously when you were troubleshooting the Denver....

 

[ScottyB]

Try running your scale through a UPS/power line conditioner. The batteries in the UPS may help if you've got some noise on your neutral.

 

[AussieFB]

It is probably one of two things....power supply fluctuations or wind. I run my FX-120i off a motorcycle 12v battery for the same reasons and I also built a wooden box around the scales to reduce breeze/wind - which I got the idea from somebody on this site. Static electricity can also influence the scales, so make sure you are not making any. Fluro lights do not impact the FX-120i.

PM if you want photos of the wind shelter. Plug, cable and some battery clips will cost you very little to make a cable...the wiring diagram for the plug (i.e. which bit is + and -) is in the handbook or on the charger. I also run Adams powder trickler from the battery - no issues.

 

[USMCDOC]

i believe it might be static.. even in the summer, i get shocked by the metal of a car door when getting out of it and closing it.. i don't have an old fluorescence light of any kind.. the house is old though.. Oh and i can stand away from the scale.. 4 feet.. and watch it never move.. but as soon as i step up near it.. it starts to move.. that is even with the wind shield completely covering the scale.. so i will need a way to isolate the power or reduce that field of static or ambient electricity..

 

[SheepDog]

If your scale is reacting to your body's electrical field you can use a grounding wire from you to a solid ground. We used to use them when working on electronic assemblies back in the day. It was a piece of neoprene cord from a wrist or around your waist with an alligator clip connected to a metal table or pipe.

 

[rardoin]

USMCDOC, two common issues that can cause readout fluctuations are air currents and line voltage fluctuations. I have my scale in a small room with a window unit AC that I turn off prior to using the scale so I can leave the draft doors open. The second issue of line voltage fluctuation I take care of with a line conditioner/surge protector. I have no issues of drifting. The stability of the table is important but you have mentioned that the platform is solid. My suggestion is to put a line conditioner that affords surge protection also as you want to secure your investment. I have this one...cost about $95: https://www.tripplite.com/1200w-120...ion-avr-ac-surge-protection-4-outlets~LC1200/

 

[hoz53]

USMCDOC, two common issues that can cause readout fluctuations are air currents and line voltage fluctuations. I have my scale in a small room with a window unit AC that I turn off prior to using the scale so I can leave the draft doors open. The second issue of line voltage fluctuation I take care of with a line conditioner/surge protector. I have no issues of drifting. The stability of the table is important but you have mentioned that the platform is solid. My suggestion is to put a line conditioner that affords surge protection also as you want to secure your investment. I have this one...cost about $95: https://www.tripplite.com/1200w-120...ion-avr-ac-surge-protection-4-outlets~LC1200/

These guys have listed most of the normal fixes for the problem you are having. Have you had someone else try to use the scale to see if that makes a differance. Got any metal in your body? That circuited is grounded right? Get one of those cheap recept testers and it will tell you if you're recept wiring is okay. I'm sure you'll eventually figure it out. Will be interesting to know.

 

[smoooth]

As SheepDog stated, sounds like YOU are the interference if it only fluctuates in YOUR presence. Do you have a pacemaker or medical implant of some type? Have you been exposed to high levels of radiation or electromagnetism?


Have you been abducted by aliens who may have implanted a tracking device emitting a frequency which is interfering with your scale(s)?

 

[rardoin]

I just reread your post describing the scale fluctuation as you step near it. Is the reloading room on a slab or wood floor? If a wood floor, any slight change in level as you stand near the scale/shift your weight can, and usually will, cause a change in reading. Just another thought. My scale is on a granite stand with neoprene isolation feet but when I push the toggle switches on my autotrickler I get momentary scale fluctuations on the order of +- .020 gr or more then it returns to original reading in a few seconds. I type this to emphasize how sensitive these scales are.

BTW...I too am very sensitive to static charge and get shocked when no one else does. I have not had any issues with my scale attributed to this but I am in the deep south of the very humid state of Louisiana...so that could mitigate that issue.

 

[USMCDOC]

If your scale is reacting to your body's electrical field you can use a grounding wire from you to a solid ground. We used to use them when working on electronic assemblies back in the day. It was a piece of neoprene cord from a wrist or around your waist with an alligator clip connected to a metal table or pipe.

I will consider this idea.. yes, that brings me back to seeing guys working in areas where static can be really dangerous.

As SheepDog stated, sounds like YOU are the interference if it only fluctuates in YOUR presence. Do you have a pacemaker or medical implant of some type? Have you been exposed to high levels of radiation or electromagnetism?
Have you been abducted by aliens who may have implanted a tracking device emitting a frequency which is interfering with your scale(s)?

Part one, no Pace Maker, but sometimes i have a problem with keeping pace! No implants.. dont' even use viagra! But seriously, i am all original as far as i know of!

Part Two.. as far as i know.. i have not been taken.. but i did have some "out of body" experiences when i was a young kid..

I just reread your post describing the scale fluctuation as you step near it. Is the reloading room on a slab or wood floor? If a wood floor, any slight change in level as you stand near the scale/shift your weight can, and usually will, cause a change in reading. Just another thought. My scale is on a granite stand with neoprene isolation feet but when I push the toggle switches on my autotrickler I get momentary scale fluctuations on the order of +- .020 gr or more then it returns to original reading in a few seconds. I type this to emphasize how sensitive these scales are.

BTW...I too am very sensitive to static charge and get shocked when no one else does. I have not had any issues with my scale attributed to this but I am in the deep south of the very humid state of Louisiana...so that could mitigate that issue.

the floor is concrete. I am going to still do the granite slab thing.. even though i have the table attached to the wall. I won't hurt!

USMCDOC, two common issues that can cause readout fluctuations are air currents and line voltage fluctuations. I have my scale in a small room with a window unit AC that I turn off prior to using the scale so I can leave the draft doors open. The second issue of line voltage fluctuation I take care of with a line conditioner/surge protector. I have no issues of drifting. The stability of the table is important but you have mentioned that the platform is solid. My suggestion is to put a line conditioner that affords surge protection also as you want to secure your investment. I have this one...cost about $95: https://www.tripplite.com/1200w-120...ion-avr-ac-surge-protection-4-outlets~LC1200/

I think that this would be a good thing to look into.. thanks for the lead on it! Still, the electrician will be by monday or tues.. so i am sure that he will help as well.. i have already posed the dedicated line to the table for the scale too.. so with a shielded line, dedicated with a this conditioner on it, hopefully that will work.. if not, then i will tie a grounding line to me and attache it to a stake outside.. i have a hole already in the wall i can use for that!

 

[Twoboxer]

i believe it might be static.. even in the summer, i get shocked by the metal of a car door when getting out of it and closing it.. . . . Oh and i can stand away from the scale.. 4 feet.. and watch it never move.. but as soon as i step up near it.. it starts to move.. that is even with the wind shield completely covering the scale... . .

This is a pretty strong indication that static electricity is a major problem.

For a quick fix and test, take the power transformer from your old scale, plug it in, and then hold the metal plug intended for the scale in your hand. If your outlet is grounded, and assuming the outer wall of the transformer's plug is the ground, you are now grounded. Start at 4' away with a stable scale, move in, see what happens.

If you find that wind protection is needed, test by putting the scale in a cardboard box. If that helps, consider buying a cheap storage cube like so . . .

 

[Matt in Virginia]

USMCDOC, two common issues that can cause readout fluctuations are air currents and line voltage fluctuations. I have my scale in a small room with a window unit AC that I turn off prior to using the scale so I can leave the draft doors open. The second issue of line voltage fluctuation I take care of with a line conditioner/surge protector. I have no issues of drifting. The stability of the table is important but you have mentioned that the platform is solid. My suggestion is to put a line conditioner that affords surge protection also as you want to secure your investment. I have this one...cost about $95: https://www.tripplite.com/1200w-120...ion-avr-ac-surge-protection-4-outlets~LC1200/

fwiw,
I bought a 1.5kVa Tripp-lite UPS, Line Interactive, for my Sartorius & Load Bench IMac...

The UGLY truth is that until you get to the $600 AVR version it really does not regulate much of anything unless it goes below 110 volts and above 128 volts if the technical service guy at Tripp-lite knew what he was talking about... I watched the blue LED readout and found the voltage did indeed vary from 113 on a low to 125 on a high and NEVER did the unit regulate anything. What it DID was educate me as to voltage variation on MY line current. It is also VERY predictable. People come home from work, turn on the A/C, or electric based heat, televisions, computers, stoves, etc. and line current drops. As people go to bed you will notice the line current pick back up quite predictably from 7:00 P.M. on... I found that my power NEVER did fluctuate enough for the AVR to ever regulate anything... Further I called Sartorius and requested their suggested power supply parameters. After explaining my power fluctuation to the tech at Sartorius, whom I know and HE IS SHARP, said the scale was "good to go" 10% above and below 120 volts. Hence he said the scale did not need the power filtration, or voltage regulation, unless they deviated from those numbers. In short they did not... The scale works GREAT, however, I would still like to have a REAL power filter/AVR/UPS, however, the unit that would keep voltage to 118-122v, not to mention a great deal else that I have forgotten, was a little over $600. Four times what I spent on the unit above from the same manufacturer on one of Zoro's 35% off sales... The ONE thing THAT ONE really did was have a neat voltage readout. I very MAY buy the $600 Tripp-lite the next time Zoro.com runs there 35% off sale... fwiw & imho.

Make certain you call them and get the actual specification on line current maintenance or your purchase MAY be more of a placebo effect than actual improvement. No doubt the guys on here are aware of this...

Regards, Matt.

Btw, Live in a house my Grandfather built, along with many others in the late 50's to very early 60's. This one is pre-ground(was not required until 61-62' here). Don't assume because you have a ground receptacle that it is actually grounded. Damned if tuition cannot be both depressing and expensive...;-).

 

[Jose_Luis_G]

Ok.. i received a new FX-120i today.. i am getting the same problematic results with it as i did with my Denver Inst TP-153 (Strain Gauge).. they are flicking back and fourth, as much as 15 digits in either direction (+ or -).. it is driving me absolutely nuts.. i can't tell you how much i am disheartened right now, thinking that my Denver was going bad, only to see the A&D doing the exact same thing..

I should go the easy way to solve the problem.
Put the powder pan and the scale plate in soapy water and allow drying without rinsing. This will prevent both parts to accumulate any kind of static.
Put the scale on top af an antistatic grounded pad, such as those used on the electronic's repair.
Ground yourself with a wrist pad, the same as above.
Use an incandescent lamp instead of any other light supply, mainly fluorescent or low comsumption lights.
If you are using a power supply for the scale, other than batteries, use an EMI RFI Filter AC 250V 10A CW1D-10A-T Suppressor Power Line Noise Filter.
That's my two cents.

 

[Twoboxer]

. . . The UGLY truth is that until you get to the $600 AVR version it really does not regulate much of anything unless it goes below 110 volts and above 128 volts if the technical service guy at Tripp-lite knew what he was talking about. . . .

Same understanding here. The job of the UPS units *normally* used at home is to keep voltage within the relatively wide range acceptable to electronic devices like PCs and AV equipment whether there is power at the wall or not.

So I bought a "lab grade" DC power supply to bypass the whole electrical issue. It produces variable, nearly ripple-free DC and replaces those cheap wall-wart transformers. Attached it to my GemPro 250 . . . no change, still fluttered.

Most times the problem isn't in the power supply. It's the scales strain gauge responding to RF noise. Or static electricity. Or air currents.

Speaking of air currents, I once used a 75W incandescent lamp aimed over my shoulder at my bench and scale. Every time my hand approached the scale it would flutter.

The problem was the 75W bulb generated heat, which warmed the air over the scale. My hand movement disturbed that warm air, causing the pressure on the scale to change and causing it to flutter. Turned off the lamp - problem solved. Went with LEDs instead.

 

[KWeigel]

fwiw,
I bought a 1.5kVa Tripp-lite UPS, Line Interactive, for my Sartorius & Load Bench IMac...

The UGLY truth is that until you get to the $600 AVR version it really does not regulate much of anything unless it goes below 110 volts and above 128 volts if the technical service guy at Tripp-lite knew what he was talking about... I watched the blue LED readout and found the voltage did indeed vary from 113 on a low to 125 on a high and NEVER did the unit regulate anything. What it DID was educate me as to voltage variation on MY line current. It is also VERY predictable. People come home from work, turn on the A/C, or electric based heat, televisions, computers, stoves, etc. and line current drops. As people go to bed you will notice the line current pick back up quite predictably from 7:00 P.M. on... I found that my power NEVER did fluctuate enough for the AVR to ever regulate anything... Further I called Sartorius and requested their suggested power supply parameters. After explaining my power fluctuation to the tech at Sartorius, whom I know and HE IS SHARP, said the scale was "good to go" 10% above and below 120 volts. Hence he said the scale did not need the power filtration, or voltage regulation, unless they deviated from those numbers. In short they did not... The scale works GREAT, however, I would still like to have a REAL power filter/AVR/UPS, however, the unit that would keep voltage to 118-122v, not to mention a great deal else that I have forgotten, was a little over $600. Four times what I spent on the unit above from the same manufacturer on one of Zoro's 35% off sales... The ONE thing THAT ONE really did was have a neat voltage readout. I very MAY buy the $600 Tripp-lite the next time Zoro.com runs there 35% off sale... fwiw & imho.

Make certain you call them and get the actual specification on line current maintenance or your purchase MAY be more of a placebo effect than actual improvement. No doubt the guys on here are aware of this...

Regards, Matt.

Btw, Live in a house my Grandfather built, along with many others in the late 50's to very early 60's. This one is pre-ground(was not required until 61-62' here). Don't assume because you have a ground receptacle that it is actually grounded. Damned if tuition cannot be both depressing and expensive...;-).

Matt, don't take this wrong. Only trying to inform another shooter. Line voltage fluctuates because of load applied to the system. The current in your circuit feeding your scale doesn't fluctuate, the voltage does as you described because of all the other loads being applied to the power grid.

Additionally the utility has to stay within IEEE standards of voltage. This is 5% of 120 volts, or 126 on the high end and 114 on the low. these numbers are at the point of coupling, normally the meter socket for a residence. So it is easy to assume voltage drop from internal home wiring and load to achieve 113 volts at the outlet.

This is one reason why the tuned balance beams are so great.

I personally am not as concerned with voltage changes as I am of harmonics. All the non linear loads you described like computer power supplies, LED lighting, vfd drives at neighboring businesses. These types of loads change the fundamental sinewave and affect delicate equipment and cause heat in others. This is what is nice about some of the high end ups. They will give THD or total harmonic distortion. Look for anything in access of 5%.

 

[USMCDOC]

Like i said, there is a electrician coming over first of the week, (i have been trying to get him for while for another project) that will give me an opportunity to discuss some of these options and look at the situation.