i would have to agree, norma is not the same as lapua. I lost my norma brass in 4 firings!! stretched primer pocket and brittle necks. this was on a mild load in a 6BR. the same load in my lapua brass has 10+ firings that takes primers like it was new brass. not doubting your abilities.
FatBoy's 6 Dasher Norma
- Thread starter FatBoy
- Start date
I was reading if you hit the Norma brass with a full house load on the first firing that the primer pockets would be ruint,,did I misread that info or was it false info I read correctly,,
if you have to FF or shoot the brass with a reduced load before loading at full throttle I would rather just FF the Lapua brass,,
if you have to FF or shoot the brass with a reduced load before loading at full throttle I would rather just FF the Lapua brass,,
swd
Silver $$ Contributor
You can't compare Norma Dasher and Norma 6BR brass. The new Dasher brass is MUCH harder than their 6BR. I've shot Norma 6BR in my BRX and yes it doesn't take much abuse but the new Dasher brass is tough stuff.
tclaunch
Silver $$ Contributor
My first outing with the Norma stuff was a load workup that went to 33.1 grains Varget on virgin cases, and when reworking the brass I found the same tension on primer pockets, so I`m not as worried as I was. I sure didn`t miss the time at home with false shouldering, or getting out the hydroform die. I am very skeptical of any report at all of extended case life over 3000 fps. I read that on here, but I have never ever had a primer seat like a new piece of brass when speeds ran up there at 3050. I stay away from that node just from a practical standpoint. I really appreciate the longer neck on the Norma brass, and look forward to the next batch. If anyone knows when that might be. I would only buy more of existing stuff if it were deeply discounted due the work it takes to get them to .050" rim thickness. I specced my own reamer dimensions, and have no issues with this new brass.
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My Barnard grabs the rims just fine. Only "issue" is the brass hangs on the extractor a tiny bit when you pull it out of the loading port. That is with new, unfired brass strait from the box so I may be in for a rude awakening Saturday but I'm pretty confident it's going to be fine.
I have to wonder if we'll be going through all these same exercises when the new lot of Norma brass arrives? Oh the humanity
Seems there may be an opportunity for someone who likes the current lot, to buy up a pile of it for cheap.
I can't thank you all enough for the feedback. Both openly and via PM.
Chris
I have to wonder if we'll be going through all these same exercises when the new lot of Norma brass arrives? Oh the humanity
Seems there may be an opportunity for someone who likes the current lot, to buy up a pile of it for cheap.I can't thank you all enough for the feedback. Both openly and via PM.
Chris
6 BR and Improved likes pressure. The more powder the lower the es
With small (.062) firing pins hard primers and close tolerance actions
going over 52.000 cup is the norm. This is what everybody does.
The case performs best at this pressure level. But go another 500-750 ,cup
and the parties over. That's .5 of a grain of powder. Most Benchresters
run this case at 53.000 cup, and more. This is what works for them.
Some guys are down loading and repeatedly (firing) to slowly fit case head
to the chamber walls. This gives more support to keep primer pocket intact.
This may also slightly work harden the case head. Food for thought
But this is done so the case will last at the 53000+ cup level.
With small (.062) firing pins hard primers and close tolerance actions
going over 52.000 cup is the norm. This is what everybody does.
The case performs best at this pressure level. But go another 500-750 ,cup
and the parties over. That's .5 of a grain of powder. Most Benchresters
run this case at 53.000 cup, and more. This is what works for them.
Some guys are down loading and repeatedly (firing) to slowly fit case head
to the chamber walls. This gives more support to keep primer pocket intact.
This may also slightly work harden the case head. Food for thought
But this is done so the case will last at the 53000+ cup level.
lawman29
Gold $$ Contributor
Tom - Thank You! I have just started down the dasher road (for F Class) and went with the Norma brass. My JGS reamer is .4707 & .269 neck & Harrels 4d. I paid attention when you and Donovan were posting earlier during this 'debate'... There are a lot of Keyboard Kowboys out there...as we say out west, "All hat and no horse...."
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
Been using the Norma Dasher brass since it came out. First, you literally have to firearm the stuff. My first load is now 32.0 gr. VGT with the older 107 SMK's. Case necks are uniformed at .0125" thick. No issues except the primer crushing done trying to even get a primer into those cases first time. To go any higher than say 32.5 gr. is to BE in a high-pressure situation. This is what I have to do before normal loads. Hate to call it a "firearm" as the case is formed. Still, without doing this I could not use the brass in a normal manner.
After one firing the primers seat normally. I now regularly shoot 33.0 gr. of Varget with 105 Bergers. No pressure issues but that's the top load I can use without flirting with pressure and velocity spikes.
After one firing the primers seat normally. I now regularly shoot 33.0 gr. of Varget with 105 Bergers. No pressure issues but that's the top load I can use without flirting with pressure and velocity spikes.
Sorry guys didn't mean to burn the woods down on this one. I just hate
to see this Norma Dasher getting a bad rap. I was just trying to help another
prone shooter out with my experience. Its good to see folks getting on here
and saying good things about the Norma Dasher. We are so lucky to have it
to see this Norma Dasher getting a bad rap. I was just trying to help another
prone shooter out with my experience. Its good to see folks getting on here
and saying good things about the Norma Dasher. We are so lucky to have it
Ready to go and loaded up for tomorrow but it's only going to be about 20°F and we got snow today. As much as I want to shoot this barrel it'll be a wasted trip (I hear you NY and MT guys laughing from here).
Putting off my test. I may end up dropping off the rig with Tim, the builder, and see if he can run them over his chrono next week when it warms up. I go on call Tuesday and won't come off until a few days before the match.
Putting off my test. I may end up dropping off the rig with Tim, the builder, and see if he can run them over his chrono next week when it warms up. I go on call Tuesday and won't come off until a few days before the match.
Well, I went out today and put 50 rounds down the pipe. 28° F. I couldn't get the chrono set up so I have no idea what my numbers look like.
All the primers look good. Groups were not what I expected. Almost all of them averaged .6" at 100, but my horizontal was the culprit. Maybe my bench technique with a tube gun? Who knows. I'm no benchrester for sure and my one 600 yard group was just under MOA sized. Not exactly what I was expecting, but workable and certainly could have been me, as I was shooting an 18" piece of steel.
One issue I had that did bother me was the thickness rims. It feeds and extracts fine but they hang up when I try to pull them off the bolt face. They jam at aboit a 30° angle and it's a serious pain in the arse to get them off. From a sling this is gonna be a deal breaker. I will contact Whidden and see if I can get a other extractor before we try to cut this one down.
Certainly not the greatest data here, but I think a lot of this has to do with how I had to set the buttplate in the ears of the rear bag to get down far enough and that the rest bead was rotating a bit. Time will tell, but for now I have a starting point.
Edit: I plugged my 600 yard come up (11.75moa) into JMB and it looks like 34gr 2000MR and 32gr Varget are both netting 2980fps at 28°F. Not bad, especially considering I shoot .5gr more of each with no pressure today. Now, if I can get my groups half the size and verify my SD we might have something here.
All the primers look good. Groups were not what I expected. Almost all of them averaged .6" at 100, but my horizontal was the culprit. Maybe my bench technique with a tube gun? Who knows. I'm no benchrester for sure and my one 600 yard group was just under MOA sized. Not exactly what I was expecting, but workable and certainly could have been me, as I was shooting an 18" piece of steel.
One issue I had that did bother me was the thickness rims. It feeds and extracts fine but they hang up when I try to pull them off the bolt face. They jam at aboit a 30° angle and it's a serious pain in the arse to get them off. From a sling this is gonna be a deal breaker. I will contact Whidden and see if I can get a other extractor before we try to cut this one down.
Certainly not the greatest data here, but I think a lot of this has to do with how I had to set the buttplate in the ears of the rear bag to get down far enough and that the rest bead was rotating a bit. Time will tell, but for now I have a starting point.
Edit: I plugged my 600 yard come up (11.75moa) into JMB and it looks like 34gr 2000MR and 32gr Varget are both netting 2980fps at 28°F. Not bad, especially considering I shoot .5gr more of each with no pressure today. Now, if I can get my groups half the size and verify my SD we might have something here.
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LabRadar makes all the chrono fiddling very simple. Sorry, I don't have more to contribute. Not an expert in the cartridge, but sure appreciate the report and enjoying the discussion.
Next time Kubic brings his to the range I'll get someone to distract him with something shiney and "borrow" it for awhile. Seriously, I haven't pulled my chrono out in years but lab radar does sound like a nice addition.
When it really hangs up it cuts a burr on the rim. Once I hear back from Carrie about the availability of a spare (or if the PTG unit works) we'really gonna start stoning it until I can easily pop the cases out.
I'm not going max load. Seemed to shoot well at 32vr varget at 34vr 2000MR. I'll stick with those until I have a couple hundred roujds down range and the heat starts to climb. By May it should be high 80s, so I'll retest.
FWIW, the 2000MR appeared to have fewer cases hang up than the Varget, tbough I don't have a firm number. I'll size and re-prime today to see if the Varget pockets are looser.
I'm not going max load. Seemed to shoot well at 32vr varget at 34vr 2000MR. I'll stick with those until I have a couple hundred roujds down range and the heat starts to climb. By May it should be high 80s, so I'll retest.
FWIW, the 2000MR appeared to have fewer cases hang up than the Varget, tbough I don't have a firm number. I'll size and re-prime today to see if the Varget pockets are looser.
I have a 6.5 x55 BJAI in a Borden BRMXD action/Sako extractor and I had the same issue with Lapua (and worse with RWS) brass as they are a little thicker in the rim than the US makes. The extractor claw would not engage entirely into the extractor groove on a significant percentage of cases and would 'chew off' a sliver of the rim...much like you have shown but a little less pronounced. I took a fine flat jeweler's file on the underside of the claw and made less than a dozen light pressure passes and I have not had any issues since. It probably won't take much effort with a stone or a fine file to fix your problem.
swd
Silver $$ Contributor
The red line is place to relieve if you need clearance. First take out your ejector, put a case against the bolt and see if the hook pops over easily. If it does don't relieve it. It looks like your extractor needs to be deburred and polished. Polish the angle on the front where it hits the case to push it up to snap over and very lightly deburr the edges but not the bottom edge of the red line.
Pulled the extractor out, hit all the sharp edges [and damn were they were razor sharp] and polished the top (chamber end) of the groove as well as the sides of the groove where it meets the extractors left and right edges, smoothed it a little is all.
I just ran 20 pieces through and only two had any drag at all, but they popped right out without marking the brass and didn't require any wiggling. It still grabs, extracts and released 6BR brass just fine too.
As close as I could measure the Norma Dasher rim was .012" thicker than the Lapua 6BR rims. I had a hard time measuring the extractor groove with calipers but I would be shocked if I took more than .002" off any surface.
Thanks guys. I know many of you will see this extractor info in two threads but I think the one in the gunsmith section will be easier to bring up in a search engine down the road.
I just ran 20 pieces through and only two had any drag at all, but they popped right out without marking the brass and didn't require any wiggling. It still grabs, extracts and released 6BR brass just fine too.
As close as I could measure the Norma Dasher rim was .012" thicker than the Lapua 6BR rims. I had a hard time measuring the extractor groove with calipers but I would be shocked if I took more than .002" off any surface.
Thanks guys. I know many of you will see this extractor info in two threads but I think the one in the gunsmith section will be easier to bring up in a search engine down the road.
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