The new NRA High Power Rifle competition rule that allows optical sights on the M16 series service rife is one of the more significant rule changes since I began shooting in this type of competition. It is no longer a seeing contest and we not longer have to be concerned with sight alignment if we choose to use the optical sight. These are significant advantages but they come with other considerations. I would like to hear from folks that have now tried optical sights on the service rifle in completion and hear what the new challenges are with this type of sight considering we shoot three positions in the National Course.
NRA/CMP Rule Change Allowing Optical Sights
- Thread starter chkunz
- Start date
Are the optical sights shooting straight-up against the iron sights or are there two classes?
One class, take a look at rule 3 (c).
Is the average age of the competition going up or is it static?
That is an interesting question but not on topic of my question "I would like to hear from folks that have now tried optical sights on the service rifle in completion and hear what the new challenges are with this type of sight considering we shoot three positions in the National Course." No disrespect at all to your question and there are several more significant topics relative to this rule change we could discuss but I wanted to start with a very specific question. Thanks again for your reply.
You will find all the answers you want on this site.
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/
It has been discussed at lengths all year.
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/
It has been discussed at lengths all year.
Thanks for the recommendation on the site, however I am unable to log on, it says my email address is already in use and I do not know how to get past that block.
Still get the statement that says my email address is already in use. Thanks for trying to help. I do not know what else to try, anyone know how to get in touch with the admin folks on that site?
I have been shooting service rifle for 22years. First time at camp perry I was 15 years old. I made master with iron sights, got 4 leg points at SAFS in 2010, and 10 points at the NTI at camp perry in 2015.
I put a 4x leopold on my AR, and my score did indeed improve. Especially 600 yards. I shot 480, 486, 484, and 488 this year, legged out and at perry with a 478.
To me, it made all the difference in the world
I put a 4x leopold on my AR, and my score did indeed improve. Especially 600 yards. I shot 480, 486, 484, and 488 this year, legged out and at perry with a 478.
To me, it made all the difference in the world
"I would like to hear from folks like you that have now tried optical sights on the service rifle in completion and hear what the new challenges are with this type of sight considering we shoot three positions in the National Course."
Why are you quoting yourself? For challenges? Those are pretty solid scores, get my offhand under control and they'll be even better. But that is the same regardless of optical sight or not. I'm at a loss to describe any challenges I faced this year.
Challenges:
1. Repeatability ofnoptics (cheap will not work)
2. You have to get the scope forward to get proper eye relief in position
3. Parallax needs to be fixed further out than most scopes. I had mine set to 300.
4. Offhand has proven to be a mental hurdle for some. It takes time to get used to seeing your wobble at 4x.
You won't know until you put the gun together and hit the range. If you are a Sharpshooter now, you won't be a high master overnight. My last full season of XTC (2010) I was shooting high 770s through mid 780's most days. With the optic rifle, I feel like I can squeeze another 2-4 points on average, but it's too early to tell. I shot a 500agg practice at 100yds recent and shot a 493-22x. Should have been better but I dropped one sitting to a bad shot and had a mediocre standing. I can dress thenshots up better, but they it's not a cake walk by any means. I suggest you hit the range and conduct the experiment that will tell you what your challenges are with the scopes gun.
1. Repeatability ofnoptics (cheap will not work)
2. You have to get the scope forward to get proper eye relief in position
3. Parallax needs to be fixed further out than most scopes. I had mine set to 300.
4. Offhand has proven to be a mental hurdle for some. It takes time to get used to seeing your wobble at 4x.
You won't know until you put the gun together and hit the range. If you are a Sharpshooter now, you won't be a high master overnight. My last full season of XTC (2010) I was shooting high 770s through mid 780's most days. With the optic rifle, I feel like I can squeeze another 2-4 points on average, but it's too early to tell. I shot a 500agg practice at 100yds recent and shot a 493-22x. Should have been better but I dropped one sitting to a bad shot and had a mediocre standing. I can dress thenshots up better, but they it's not a cake walk by any means. I suggest you hit the range and conduct the experiment that will tell you what your challenges are with the scopes gun.
Thanks, this is the type of information I am looking for. I experimented with a scope on an AR match rifle and there were some significant challenges to overcome. One of the most significant was getting the scope far enough forward which you mention above. I figured out how to do that on the match rifle and would like to know more specifically how folks are doing that with the service rifle. My eye is in a different axial position for each of the shooting positions so I moved the scope with a quick disconnect mount for each shooting position, did you do that or did you change the stock length? Did you use an extended rail, extended mount? I used an adjustable cheek piece to get my eye in line with the scope vertically with the scope but the rules do not allow adjustable cheek pieces on the service rifle so how did you deal with that? Thanks again for your reply.
Yes those are very good scores, congratulations. But I quoted myself because you did not answer my question. See the response from DR1586 and my reply to him, this is an example of the kind of information I am looking for. I am sure you experienced some of these "challenges" and from your scores you found a successful way to deal with them. That is the kind of detail I am looking for. Thanks again for your response and congratulations on making the most of the new optics rule.
I used a cantilever style mount. I believe mine is a Weaver brand. I had to relieves some spots for clearance in the hand guard and the power ring on the scope. I set mine up to get the center of the scope as close to the same height as an A2 sight. I think my setup is like .100" higher. For head position, it's a service rifle. You have to adjust to fit the gun. I keep the scope in the same place (required by the rules I believe) and adjust my body and my sling. I use a rear flip cap with a hole drilled in the middle kid of like an aperture sight. Seems to help with focus and consistent head position. It's easy to get lazy with the scope, which will end up causing bad shots.
Downhill
Gold $$ Contributor
I've competed in Service Rifle Competition since the early 90's. The allowance of optics will allow me to keep shooting (spent 29 yrs as a pipeline welder and at 50 have noticed I can no longer make out the front sight). The only real challenge I have experienced is a slight parallax issue in the sitting position ( there again at 50 I may not be quite as flexible as in the past). Got till the spring to get it worked out- offhand and prone are great though.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.