20 CAL. SHOOTERS A FAVOR TO ASK

[daniel brothers]

http://www.blackholebullets.com/services.html

Black Hole Bullets are your answer. He will even make 50 - 60 gr bullets with a v-max style tip. I shoot his 55 gr bullets in my 20-250 AI at only 3770 fps, with a 8 twist pacnor barrel, and they will group inside a cigarette pack at 600 yds all day long.

I also shoot the Berger 55's in the same rifle, and they shoot exactly as the Black Hole bullets... can't tell them apart... BUT.... I do think the Blackholes may be a tad tighter. They shoot good enough for me... so... I ain't changing a thing...LOL.

He hand makes every bullet one at a time... and his prices are very good as well... try them out... you will NOT be disappointed.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

Shot a few of Blaine's bullets. I know he makes good ones. They seem to be a bit tougher than the bergers, vmax, for bk's. For shooting varmints I can see where one would want the bullet to come apart a little quicker. But for coyotes they'd be great.

Aaron

 

[TAJ45]

Several years ago I pestered the VP of Marketing at Savage to legitimize the 17 Ackley Hornet (or some version of it). This was just after the model 40 had been released. He and I exchanged many emails. He eventually asked me for some loaded rounds. He was very interested in the concept but of course the lack of factory ammunition was a deal breaker. I suggested Hornady seemed to be the most receptive to launching a new varmint cartridge. Next I contacted Hornady and let them know that Savage was interested in the project. Each company liked the idea but wanted the other to be the first to jump but at least they were talking about it. At that point I pulled back and waited. A couple years later the 17 Hornady Hornet was released.

I'm not claiming to be "the" reason the cartridge appeared, but I do think I got a ball rolling. Want a fast twist 20 caliber made by a mainstream bullet manufacturer? They'll want production guns available to shoot those bullets. How bad do you want it?

I deleted my previous post for errors in the amount of bullets bought in the Saubier .17 caliber group buy. I searched the site and came up with this info. Roughly 24600 were requested and paid for. Minimum order was either 10,000 or 90,000 depending on certain variables. From the thread posted on 11/06/13


"This is the response I got from Berger regarding the 25gr target bullets."

Hi Bryant,

I apologize for the delay in response, I had to check with production for pricing and availability. They indicated to me that right now due to the market conditions and the massive amounts of backorders that it would be near impossible to schedule a custom run of bullets anytime soon. He indicated that to add this onto his schedule we would have to place you behind all existing backorders for designs we have, which would delay the production of this run for at least several months if not past a year. In order to produce these, we would have to order specially sized copper and lead as well, so we would require payment when the order is placed.

Since we require a minimum jacket run of 100,000, and 10,000 jackets would be used towards the bullets, this is a rough estimate:

10,000 Custom Bullets: $2900
+90,000 Custom Jackets: $8000
+shipping (roughly 128 lbs shipping from ZIP 92707)
+sales taxes if shipping within CA (8.75%)
Estimated Total: $10,900 + shipping and taxes

If you are still interested even with the delay on production, we can work up an exact cost with shipping and taxes included.


Thank you,

Ryan Neal
Marketing Specialist
Ryan.Neal@BergerBullets.com

HogPatrol, can you break that cost down? I'm cornfused on the 90k jacket, then only 10k bullets. Please 'Splain it to me. I'm really curious for cost per 100K, delivered.

 

[TAJ45]

HogPatrol, can you break that cost down? I'm cornfused on the 90k jacket, then only 10k bullets. Please 'Splain it to me. I'm really curious for cost per 100K, delivered.

Please....

 

[hogpatrol]

HogPatrol, can you break that cost down? I'm cornfused on the 90k jacket, then only 10k bullets. Please 'Splain it to me. I'm really curious for cost per 100K, delivered.

I couldn't make any sense out of it either and don't know how they arrived at the price we paid, but ballpark, it was around $43 for a box of 200.

 

[17VLD]

I like the looks of that 55RBT Daniel,thanks for posting the pic.I have always wanted to try some on long range PD's my main concern was that they might be tougher than the Berger.Thats why I always have had a desire to see Sierra or Hornady make a Blitz or a VMax for a long range 20 cal bullet.Its my thought that they would open better than the Berger 55 or the boutique bullets on 1000 yard PD's providing a more humane kill.I recall VolDoc's comments on PD's shot at over 1000+ yards with his 20BR he also wished for a more explosive bullet.Of course a guy can shoot bigger and bigger cartridges to achieve that 1000 yard varmint kill.But after all some of us want to prove what a good 20 with good bullets is capable of,isn't that why we are in this section of cyber space.I think I will buy some of Blaines bullets and try 'em on a distant rock chuck and see how they do,then perhaps try them on some PD's.
Matt

 

[hogpatrol]

I like the looks of that 55RBT Daniel,thanks for posting the pic.I have always wanted to try some on long range PD's my main concern was that they might be tougher than the Berger.Thats why I always have had a desire to see Sierra or Hornady make a Blitz or a VMax for a long range 20 cal bullet.Its my thought that they would open better than the Berger 55 or the boutique bullets on 1000 yard PD's providing a more humane kill.I recall VolDoc's comments on PD's shot at over 1000+ yards with his 20BR he also wished for a more explosive bullet.Of course a guy can shoot bigger and bigger cartridges to achieve that 1000 yard varmint kill.But after all some of us want to prove what a good 20 with good bullets is capable of,isn't that why we are in this section of cyber space.I think I will buy some of Blaines bullets and try 'em on a distant rock chuck and see how they do,then perhaps try them on some PD's.
Matt

What's would be the velocity of a 50 or 55 .20 cal bullet at 1000 yds. with the hottest cartridge? Drop and drift at 5mph? Would there be enough muzzle energy to kill a groundhog at that distance?

 

[daniel brothers]

I wouldn't hesitate shooting a ground-dog at 1000 yds... because I shot a coyote last year in Nebraska at 631 yds with my 20-250 w/ 55gr berger ... and it just fell over and rolled down the hill...never flinched or twitched... I couldn't even find the hole in his chest where it went in.

Ps .... I just looked at it's energy at 1000 yds... it's 237 ft lbs. BUT... remember.... I have her running a tad slow at 3770 fps... she will run up in the 3900's... but she shoots sweeter slower.

with a 300 yd zero....

at 1000 yds... it produces...

200.47 inches of drop

237 ft lbs of energy

90.13 inches of drift...10 mph wind at 3 oclock

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

I have spoken with my contact at Sierra about a 50 grain 20 caliber blitzking bullet. Its looking very promising so far but it will require a large upfront purchase to make it happen. I am working out the details and will post new information as it becomes available.

 

[Tommie]

I have spoken with my contact at Sierra about a 50 grain 20 caliber blitzking bullet. Its looking very promising so far but it will require a large upfront purchase to make it happen. I am working out the details and will post new information as it becomes available.

I started my reloading "hobby" with Sierra bullets but eventually joined the Hornady camp when I witnessed the performance difference on small varmints. But if a 50 or 55 grain BK were offered I'd be he first in line to buy a pile of them.

I'll always have a soft spot for Berger and my hat is off to them for offering a 55 grain 20 caliber bullet. However, their past decision to cut production of low volume bullets burned me. I was just about to start a long-awaited project rifle that required a heavy 20 cal bullet and more than likely would have been built around the Berger 55 grainer. Luckily I read about Berger suspending production just days before spending a pile of cash to get a custom reamer, barrel, etc etc. Hate to say it but I'd prefer to rely on a more mainstream manufacturer. Hoping Sierra goes for it.

 

[jotrot]

wirelessguy your awesome, I hope this pans out.

thank you for your effort

 

[17VLD]

Hog patrol,I plugged my load info into my ballistic calculator and come up with between 399 and 439 for lb ft of energy at 1000 yards.Depending on
the b.c. used, I used Bergers corrected b.c. data for their 55 grain bullet of .354.Velocity was 1989 fps.
Drift at 1000 in a 10 mph wind would need 5.5 MOA correction.Drop is only 2.5 MOA.I am not sure of the b.c. of the Black hole bullets,I'm mainly interested in the their 50 grain offering because the speed and accuracy seem better suited to my 20 Dasher.A while back Rick Jamison stated that he thought 400ft lbs of energy should be strived for to kill coyotes cleanly,I think my load would work on a 'chuck at 1000,of course I will have to shoot it with the Black Hole bullets on paper first to see how the drops work out,and see if it is feasible .Daniel I see that you are using data for the Berger that you shot,do you have data for the BHB 50 and 55RBT?
Matt

 

[daniel brothers]

My data is with the berger 55... on the Vortex ballistic calculator website.... I use their scope, and their calculator is wonderful in my opinion. I used the G7....0.182 BC for these 55's... I have not tried any other bullets because I built this rifle around the Berger 55... and it shoots it very well.

I'll be leaving SC in a few weeks for my month long coyote hunting spree in the midwest... can't wait. This 20 caliber will be first up to the plate... I Love shooting it.

 

[17VLD]

Sounds good Daniel,you should have snow by they and some nice fur.
Emailed Blaine and he gave me the b.c. for the 55 it is very close to the Berger55,.356.He did say he was working on a 50,down the road some time.Possibly a 52 or 53 ULD open tip as well.
Matt

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

Guys,

After speaking with Sierra it looks like the 50 grain bullet is a real possibility. The pricing structure has been discussed and makes sense but it would require a large purchase. At this point I am asking for some test bullets to be made in an effort to confirm that they will perform satisfactorily prior to committing to the large volume required to make this happen. Based on the information I am getting from Sierra it would be mid to late 2017 before this happens and the upcoming election could have a big impact on the time frame depending on who wins. I know this is asking alot but I would like to get a real feel for how many bullets guys would be interested in purchasing. Most likely the price would end up being around $30 per hundred which is under the current berger 55 grain price.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I'd be interested in at least 1k

 

[jotrot]

I could do 2-3k at min. depending on timing could go with more.

 

[jcm24m]

I could do 2-3k at min. depending on timing could go with more.

I would buy between 3-5 thousand 50gr Sierra 20 cal bullets if this is only a one shot deal . THANKS

 

[17VLD]

I will take 10,000.Of course I'd love to test a few.I have a 9 twist 20 Dasher built by Greg Tannel that shoots the old 50 grain Berger in the .100"s
Matt

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

Matt

I hear ya on the testing request, berger has agreed to provide me with some bullets for testing if we are able to move forward with this deal. The request has to pass thru the board for a decision prior to anything happening. I hope to have an answer back sometime in the next 30 days.