Elk @ 600 yrds

[rardoin]

The Key deer are about the size of an average coyote. I never picked up a dead one (or a live one for that matter) but have seen many killed on the side of US-1 on Big Pine. I would say about 40-50 lbs tops. They taste like......nevermind.

 

[JimT]

On those kind of hunts typically my pack is set up for a front and rear rest so to speak. It serves as both. My gun is rock solid in this cradle. I also have a bipod or stoney point tall tripod with the rear stock support. Many options when I'm on a hunt. Not necessarily will I have them in the field all the time but will take what's necessary for that hunt. I've rarely had to shoot off hand, especially beyond 300 yards. Sometimes I suppose it could be what's required but trying to eliminate it helps. Yes an elks vitals are quite sizeable.

So what size groups do you shoot offhand (standing, unsupported) at 300 yards?

 

[BenPerfected]

So what size groups do you shoot offhand (standing, unsupported) at 300 yards?

Can't tell, as I don't have large enough paper

 

[hogpatrol]

So what size groups do you shoot offhand (standing, unsupported) at 300 yards?

Over the shoulder with a mirror.

 

[dkhunt14]

So what size groups do you shoot offhand (standing, unsupported) at 300 yards?

I don't know, my light weight hunting gun weighs 55 pounds . Matt

 

[284winner]

So what size groups do you shoot offhand (standing, unsupported) at 300 yards?

Great question. Been years since I've shot at targets at 300 yards in a standing position. Years ago I shot competition and it was a requirement to shoot standing from 100&200 yards. It was with a heavy bbl .223. My groups then were a respectable (in my opinion) 1-1.5 @ 100 and about double that at 200. Usually the fliers killed the groups of course. Shooter error. I shoot standing at my 500 yard range at steel plates and regularly hit the 18" plates at 500. That's not paper and no idea about group size. Looks based on paint that there around 10-12" groups at 500.

 

[JimT]

I don't know, my light weight hunting gun weighs 55 pounds . Matt

Wait, no it can't be, are you the "Matt" that had a hunting show on Comedy Central a few years back??

 

[JimT]

Great question. Been years since I've shot at targets at 300 yards in a standing position. Years ago I shot competition and it was a requirement to shoot standing from 100&200 yards. It was with a heavy bbl .223. My groups then were a respectable (in my opinion) 1-1.5 @ 100 and about double that at 200. Usually the fliers killed the groups of course. Shooter error. I shoot standing at my 500 yard range at steel plates and regularly hit the 18" plates at 500. That's not paper and no idea about group size. Looks based on paint that there around 10-12" groups at 500.

That's kinda what I imagined.

 

[jonbearman]

I just realized that my opinion and that's all it was got me in trouble. I will say it one more time that this thread is really interesting as the excuse's why I am wrong in opining that trying to get closer to your quarry is a bad thing I guess. I also know that close shots like a hundred yd's could never happen in the real world. As a matter of fact shooting across canyons, off horseback etc , are all possibility's. But the guy sounds like he is newer to this to even ask the question on what to use to shoot an animal at 600 yards. I know it is his buddy and I don't know his life experience but not wanting to try to get within at very least 400 yd's when you aren't a really seasoned shooter is where a lot of animals get wounded and suffer till you can get a cous de grace shot off. It may take hours to get to the animal in some case's. Personally I myself prefer to get as close as you can within your shooting range you are comfortable to make the shot. I also know there are many talented shooters who could make the shot easy providing the wind isn't too bad or you aren't shooting at radical angle's etc. So yes it can be done by many but not by all . That's how I base my opinion on these type's of things from personal experience's. I never meant to offend anyone but the fella concerned sounds like he just wants a rifle and it will do the rest which makes me nervous that if he is inexperienced then the elk may either get missed or wounded and may never be found. Now if he has the shooting skill, wind reading ability, and used to hard angle's along with riding a horse, camel, mule, or a yak more power to him. I always feel that taking chance's like this are tough calls, but I like clean efficient kills with no suffering to the animal. So in closing if you can do it , go for it. I just didn't realize that shooting such range's was something you have to do to harvest a good bull. For this I feel I must apologize for being so clueless as to hunt elk in the mountain's. This is just an opinion similar to anyone else on this forum so don't attack me for just an observation.

 

[savagedasher]

Thought Florida had fairly average size whitetails and the Key deer were the Hamster size deer ? I know the Key deer are a smaller sub species but didn't think the white tailed deer were any smaller than the Texas white tailed deer.

About the same body weight Texas deer have far bigger racks. Larry

I just realized that my opinion and that's all it was got me in trouble. I will say it one more time that this thread is really interesting as the excuse's why I am wrong in opining that trying to get closer to your quarry is a bad thing I guess. I also know that close shots like a hundred yd's could never happen in the real world. As a matter of fact shooting across canyons, off horseback etc , are all possibility's. But the guy sounds like he is newer to this to even ask the question on what to use to shoot an animal at 600 yards. I know it is his buddy and I don't know his life experience but not wanting to try to get within at very least 400 yd's when you aren't a really seasoned shooter is where a lot of animals get wounded and suffer till you can get a cous de grace shot off. It may take hours to get to the animal in some case's. Personally I myself prefer to get as close as you can within your shooting range you are comfortable to make the shot. I also know there are many talented shooters who could make the shot easy providing the wind isn't too bad or you aren't shooting at radical angle's etc. So yes it can be done by many but not by all . That's how I base my opinion on these type's of things from personal experience's. I never meant to offend anyone but the fella concerned sounds like he just wants a rifle and it will do the rest which makes me nervous that if he is inexperienced then the elk may either get missed or wounded and may never be found. Now if he has the shooting skill, wind reading ability, and used to hard angle's along with riding a horse, camel, mule, or a yak more power to him. I always feel that taking chance's like this are tough calls, but I like clean efficient kills with no suffering to the animal. So in closing if you can do it , go for it. I just didn't realize that shooting such range's was something you have to do to harvest a good bull. For this I feel I must apologize for being so clueless as to hunt elk in the mountain's. This is just an opinion similar to anyone else on this forum so don't attack me for just an observation.

I their skin is that thin they won't last long in here .

I just realized that my opinion and that's all it was got me in trouble. I will say it one more time that this thread is really interesting as the excuse's why I am wrong in opining that trying to get closer to your quarry is a bad thing I guess. I also know that close shots like a hundred yd's could never happen in the real world. As a matter of fact shooting across canyons, off horseback etc , are all possibility's. But the guy sounds like he is newer to this to even ask the question on what to use to shoot an animal at 600 yards. I know it is his buddy and I don't know his life experience but not wanting to try to get within at very least 400 yd's when you aren't a really seasoned shooter is where a lot of animals get wounded and suffer till you can get a cous de grace shot off. It may take hours to get to the animal in some case's. Personally I myself prefer to get as close as you can within your shooting range you are comfortable to make the shot. I also know there are many talented shooters who could make the shot easy providing the wind isn't too bad or you aren't shooting at radical angle's etc. So yes it can be done by many but not by all . That's how I base my opinion on these type's of things from personal experience's. I never meant to offend anyone but the fella concerned sounds like he just wants a rifle and it will do the rest which makes me nervous that if he is inexperienced then the elk may either get missed or wounded and may never be found. Now if he has the shooting skill, wind reading ability, and used to hard angle's along with riding a horse, camel, mule, or a yak more power to him. I always feel that taking chance's like this are tough calls, but I like clean efficient kills with no suffering to the animal. So in closing if you can do it , go for it. I just didn't realize that shooting such range's was something you have to do to harvest a good bull. For this I feel I must apologize for being so clueless as to hunt elk in the mountain's. This is just an opinion similar to anyone else on this forum so don't attack me for just an observation.

If they don't have thicker skin then that they won't last long in here.. Larry

 

[Zero333]

Off-hand unsupported (no sling either), I hit a 12" gong at 330 yards most of the time.
I do this for fun every 2 weeks with some of my hunting rifles when I'm out target shooting other rifles from a bench.

Until I can hit that gong 100% of the time, I will never attempt such a shot on a innocent animal.

I work with a fella who hunts deer with a Rem 7600 pump 308win because he needs a minimum of 4 fast follow up shots to hit a deer at 50 yards. He has over 30 years of hunting "experience".

 

[dkhunt14]

Wait, no it can't be, are you the "Matt" that had a hunting show on Comedy Central a few years back??

Are you the same JimT that trolls this forum and bawls and wines every time somebody mentions a shot over 200 yards. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean somebody else can't. A lot off guns can shoot 2 to 3 inch groups at 600 yards. Shooting off bipods or rests make this easy. It is about proficiency with your equipment. Some guys can shoot smaller groups at distance then others can close up. I would bet more game is wounded close up by people who can't shoot and wrong bullet chosen. Matt

 

[JRS]

I just realized that my opinion and that's all it was got me in trouble. I will say it one more time that this thread is really interesting as the excuse's why I am wrong in opining that trying to get closer to your quarry is a bad thing I guess. I also know that close shots like a hundred yd's could never happen in the real world. As a matter of fact shooting across canyons, off horseback etc , are all possibility's. But the guy sounds like he is newer to this to even ask the question on what to use to shoot an animal at 600 yards. I know it is his buddy and I don't know his life experience but not wanting to try to get within at very least 400 yd's when you aren't a really seasoned shooter is where a lot of animals get wounded and suffer till you can get a cous de grace shot off. It may take hours to get to the animal in some case's. Personally I myself prefer to get as close as you can within your shooting range you are comfortable to make the shot. I also know there are many talented shooters who could make the shot easy providing the wind isn't too bad or you aren't shooting at radical angle's etc. So yes it can be done by many but not by all . That's how I base my opinion on these type's of things from personal experience's. I never meant to offend anyone but the fella concerned sounds like he just wants a rifle and it will do the rest which makes me nervous that if he is inexperienced then the elk may either get missed or wounded and may never be found. Now if he has the shooting skill, wind reading ability, and used to hard angle's along with riding a horse, camel, mule, or a yak more power to him. I always feel that taking chance's like this are tough calls, but I like clean efficient kills with no suffering to the animal. So in closing if you can do it , go for it. I just didn't realize that shooting such range's was something you have to do to harvest a good bull. For this I feel I must apologize for being so clueless as to hunt elk in the mountain's. This is just an opinion similar to anyone else on this forum so don't attack me for just an observation.

You have nothing to apologize for, Jon, and a good hunter can get extremely close to an elk. I assure you I have to get much closer than 600 yards to kill an elk with a longbow. Montana has one of the highest success rates in the country during archery season, at 15%-40%. They aren't slinging arrows at elk hundreds of yards away.

 

[284winner]

Whether or not a guy can hit a target offhand in a standing position isn't any prequalification for if he should make the shot from a rest. I doubt anybody here would claim to take a deer or elk at long range from that shooting position. Especially if there's an option for a rest to be used. Hell I don't think I would take a shot at a deer off hand at 100 yards if there was a place to lay down or an object rest the gun on. That's a humorous question to be asked tho. Hey if it makes you feel better about yourself to know that just found out there's a guy out there that failed at putting his shots in a 6" target at 300+ yards off hand, great. I'm glad I satisfied your need to be right. In the meantime I'll keep on killing animals at very long ranges, ethically and humanely from what ever platform works to get that done. I can tell you this, it won't be from a stand up position. If it's curiosity thing to just want to know how well a guy shoots off hand, that's one thing. To want to know and to judge someone from that knowledge is another. When you don't know a person's personal capabilities, it's real hard to judge there limitations. Try to keep that point in mind before making judgements on their level of shooting performance on game. Especially the way they prefer to make those shots. I can't hit a 6" target very often from a helicopter so I guess I'm not qualified to be out in the woods hunting deer either...right ???

 

[savagedasher]

Whether or not a guy can hit a target offhand in a standing position isn't any prequalification for if he should make the shot from a rest. I doubt anybody here would claim to take a deer or elk at long range from that shooting position. Especially if there's an option for a rest to be used. Hell I don't think I would take a shot at a deer off hand at 100 yards if there was a place to lay down or an object rest the gun on. That's a humorous question to be asked tho. Hey if it makes you feel better about yourself to know that just found out there's a guy out there that failed at putting his shots in a 6" target at 300+ yards off hand, great. I'm glad I satisfied your need to be right. In the meantime I'll keep on killing animals at very long ranges, ethically and humanely from what ever platform works to get that done. I can tell you this, it won't be from a stand up position. If it's curiosity thing to just want to know how well a guy shoots off hand, that's one thing. To want to know and to judge someone from that knowledge is another. When you don't know a person's personal capabilities, it's real hard to judge there limitations. Try to keep that point in mind before making judgements on their level of shooting performance on game. Especially the way they prefer to make those shots. I can't hit a 6" target very often from a helicopter so I guess I'm not qualified to be out in the woods hunting deer either...right ???

The real problem comes from someone that says he can .
Then it don't happen. Larry

 

[JRS]

Whether or not a guy can hit a target offhand in a standing position isn't any prequalification for if he should make the shot from a rest. I doubt anybody here would claim to take a deer or elk at long range from that shooting position. Especially if there's an option for a rest to be used. Hell I don't think I would take a shot at a deer off hand at 100 yards if there was a place to lay down or an object rest the gun on. That's a humorous question to be asked tho. Hey if it makes you feel better about yourself to know that just found out there's a guy out there that failed at putting his shots in a 6" target at 300+ yards off hand, great. I'm glad I satisfied your need to be right. In the meantime I'll keep on killing animals at very long ranges, ethically and humanely from what ever platform works to get that done. I can tell you this, it won't be from a stand up position. If it's curiosity thing to just want to know how well a guy shoots off hand, that's one thing. To want to know and to judge someone from that knowledge is another. When you don't know a person's personal capabilities, it's real hard to judge there limitations. Try to keep that point in mind before making judgements on their level of shooting performance on game. Especially the way they prefer to make those shots. I can't hit a 6" target very often from a helicopter so I guess I'm not qualified to be out in the woods hunting deer either...right ???

I almost choked on that one At least not from a helicopter in flight

 

[284winner]

I almost choked on that one At least not from a helicopter in flight

Once you become acquired to shooting from a moving object, it's not too bad to acquisition a target and make a clean shot on it. Not for taking game but for a competitive activity it's cool. One discipline of shooting has nothing to do with another. I never claimed to be proficient at taking game off hand. From a bipod or platform (ie Ground, Bench, Boulder,etc) is entirely different. Some Bench rest medal winners cant do it either. We all have strong and weak shooting abilities. Some have none. I suspect those that criticize us for ours, fit into the latter group.

 

[JRS]

Once you become acquired to shooting from a moving object, it's not too bad to acquisition a target and make a clean shot on it. Not for taking game but for a competitive activity it's cool. One discipline of shooting has nothing to do with another. I never claimed to be proficient at taking game off hand. From a bipod or platform (ie Ground, Bench, Boulder,etc) is entirely different. Some Bench rest medal winners cant do it either. We all have strong and weak shooting abilities. Some have none. I suspect those that criticize us for ours, fit into the latter group.

I don't disagree with your statement. It was the 6" object from a helicopter that caused me to laugh.

 

[JRS]

Long story short. A friend of mine called me up today after an elk hunt in Idaho and said he is looking for a factory rifle in 300 Win Mag that will allow him to shoot Elk at around 600 yrds. and he wants the rifle to weight in at around 8.5lbs. with scope. And he wants to accomplish this using factory ammo. IMO, I told him I didn't think it was very feasible to do this with out being able to handload to accurately make a humane shot on an elk at that distance. What do you all think. Is it possible, or is he wishful thinking?

Something else your friend must consider when hunting elk, is his physical condition. Is this a guided hunt? If not… he's in for a major surprise. Once that big animal is down, the real work starts

 

[fredhorace77]

Something else your friend must consider when hunting elk, is his physical condition. Is this a guided hunt? If not… he's in for a major surprise. Once that big animal is down, the real work starts

He is in great shape. And no this is not guided hunts. He's actually been hunting elk for about 15 years up there. He goes up there every year. He said over the years he's noticed that he gets several good opportunities to shoot and they usually are 600 yards and under. He said the last couple hunts he has had a great opportunity to make a good broad side shoot just across the canyon at about 550 yards. And that they had a difficult time getting to him any closer because of the wind and terrain. He said it would have been so much easier to kill the animal there and then make it over to it to retrieve it rather than trying to get over there to get a shot made