Elk @ 600 yrds

[284winner]

The so called hunting bullet is the original target bullet wearing the name "hunting". That bull was shot by a very experienced hunter from Arizona who has killed more than his fair share of elk, along with many other animals. Always his Ruger #1 in 7 Mag using the Nosler Partition or TBBC bullets. On this particular occasion, he decided to use the bullet that so many sales people have bragged about. Terry was sick about the result, and swore to never hunt with a Berger bullet again. To add insult to injury, Patti mailed an 8x10 photo to him.

JRS, sounds like you've had some bad experiences with the berger bullets. If you haven't had experience with the hunting vld, you should give them an opportunity to prove themselves on Game. Big difference from the target vld, which has also been used and proven to kill very effectively. Just think the vld hunting is much better choice for bigger heavier game. The 185 hunting vld is the perfect bullet for an elk especially from a 300 win mag. I'm a huge fan of the Nosler partition and truly believe that the berger hunting vld is just as effective. Easy to push around 3000 fps and certainly will get the job done easily. That said, again being able to seal the deal on accuracy is foremost. Don't have to tell you that of course, it goes without saying. These are my experiences and I'm confident in the use of that bullet.

 

[savagedasher]

You need to experience it for yourself, Larry, then let us know. Elk often don't die as easily or quickly as deer, even with a well placed killing shot. Mortally wounded elk will often walk or run several hundred yards or more before dropping.

I don't think a elk is much different then a moose . I always say you don't kill a moose the just die . Where you shoot them depend on where they die . Take the running gear out and the will be right there . Heart lung It depends on where and how much damage . Larry.

 

[JRS]

I don't think a elk is much different then a moose . I always say you don't kill a moose the just die . Where you shoot them depend on where they die . Take the running gear out and the will be right there . Heart lung It depends on where and how much damage . Larry.

Big difference between those two animals, Larry. BTW: You're never too old to hunt. Walt Berger is a good example:

 

[JRS]

JRS, sounds like you've had some bad experiences with the berger bullets. If you haven't had experience with the hunting vld, you should give them an opportunity to prove themselves on Game. Big difference from the target vld, which has also been used and proven to kill very effectively. Just think the vld hunting is much better choice for bigger heavier game. The 185 hunting vld is the perfect bullet for an elk especially from a 300 win mag. I'm a huge fan of the Nosler partition and truly believe that the berger hunting vld is just as effective. Easy to push around 3000 fps and certainly will get the job done easily. That said, again being able to seal the deal on accuracy is foremost. Don't have to tell you that of course, it goes without saying. These are my experiences and I'm confident in the use of that bullet.

I have experienced the Hunting VLD, which is the original Berger Match Bullet. I am not going to say they don't work. However, I much prefer a properly constructed bullet designed for hunting that doesn't explode into pieces of shrapnel. I'm a meat hunter, and prefer to not destroy a large portion of the meat.

 

[fredhorace77]

Fred, bring your buddy to Tulsa Red Castle this weekend. They are holding a 1000yrd Fclass match, winds are supposed to be 10-20. He will get to see first hand what missing the center is all about. In two weeks there will a 600yrd match held, might be a good time for him to try out his factory rifle and factory fodder.

That's actually a very good idea

 

[savagedasher]

I have experienced the Hunting VLD, which is the original Berger Match Bullet. I am not going to say they don't work. However, I much prefer a properly constructed bullet designed for hunting that doesn't explode into pieces of shrapnel. I'm a meat hunter, and prefer to not destroy a large portion of the meat.

The are designed to keep 40 to 60 percent of their bullet weights . Not 98 to 100 percent that big game bullets do . Larry

Big difference between those two animals, Larry. BTW: You're never too old to hunt. Walt Berger is a good example:View attachment 992208

Yes the elk is far smaller . Larry

 

[JRS]

The are designed to keep 40 to 60 percent of their bullet weights . Not 98 to 100 percent that big game bullets do . Larry

Yes the elk is far smaller . Larry

They are not designed to maintain 40%-60% of their weight, Larry. They weren't designed for hunting. They are nothing more than the Match Bullets using the original J-4 jackets that Berger and others were using to make Match Bullets. The jackets used now for Target Bullets are a thicker version of the original jackets. Walt Berger and Eric Stecker tested them thoroughly on different types of animals. Read the results. BTW, Larry... Bullets made on the original J-4 jackets will perform in the same way the Hunting VLD performs

 

[hogpatrol]

JRS, sounds like you've had some bad experiences with the berger bullets. If you haven't had experience with the hunting vld, you should give them an opportunity to prove themselves on Game. Big difference from the target vld, which has also been used and proven to kill very effectively. Just think the vld hunting is much better choice for bigger heavier game. The 185 hunting vld is the perfect bullet for an elk especially from a 300 win mag. I'm a huge fan of the Nosler partition and truly believe that the berger hunting vld is just as effective. Easy to push around 3000 fps and certainly will get the job done easily. That said, again being able to seal the deal on accuracy is foremost. Don't have to tell you that of course, it goes without saying. These are my experiences and I'm confident in the use of that bullet.

I use the hunting VLDs in 6.5 and 7mm calibers. I have never had to take a second shot at any range.

Plenty of VLD success stories here. Lots of elk at long range.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/success-stories/hunting/p1/

 

[okie]

Shooter ability, accurate range estimation, and windage corrections will be ignored for discussions sake. I've seen guys that can shoot way better in improvised shooting positions than some guys prone with bipod.
Elk at 600 yds is a 3 moa KILL zone. Ignoring shooter and equipment alone all it takes is ammo with SD under lets say 30 fps and your good to go. ammo options do exist to meet this requirement.

I'd be more worried your buddy knows what cold bore shot imoact and velocity is

That's actually a very good idea

what is red castle tulsa?

 

[284winner]

They are not designed to maintain 40%-60% of their weight, Larry. They weren't designed for hunting. They are nothing more than the Match Bullets using the original J-4 jackets that Berger and others were using to make Match Bullets. The jackets used now for Target Bullets are a thicker version of the original jackets. Walt Berger and Eric Stecker tested them thoroughly on different types of animals. Read the results.

Who cares. They kill game as effectively and efficiently as any game ( designed) bullet out there. Sure, I can post legitimate "game bullet" failures too where many guys wounded elk, moose, deer, bear etc because of poor penetration or poor shot placement with Partitions, Barnes X, Accubonds etc. Bottom line is that the berger bullet has proven itself 100 fold to its failures. Many guys use tactical rifles for hunting. WHY ? Because they work!!! Is it a hunting rifle? Nope. Does it kill as good or maybe better ? Yes. Picking pepper out of fly shit is meaningless. The subject was will a factory 300 mag kill an elk at 600 yards with factory ammo. Answer...YES. 95% of these readers and contributors will give a unanimous yes because they are proficient shooters with the knowledge to accomplish the task. 90% of the shot is where you place the bullet.

 

[JRS]

Who cares. They kill game as effectively and efficiently as any game ( designed) bullet out there. Sure, I can post legitimate "game bullet" failures too where many guys wounded elk, moose, deer, bear etc because of poor penetration or poor shot placement with Partitions, Barnes X, Accubonds etc. Bottom line is that the berger bullet has proven itself 100 fold to its failures. Many guys use tactical rifles for hunting. WHY ? Because they work!!! Is it a hunting rifle? Nope. Does it kill as good or maybe better ? Yes. Picking pepper out of fly shit is meaningless. The subject was will a factory 300 mag kill an elk at 600 yards with factory ammo. Answer...YES. 95% of these readers and contributors will give a unanimous yes because they are proficient shooters with the knowledge to accomplish the task. 90% of the shot is where you place the bullet.

My response was directed to Larry, regarding designed. It wasn't meant to start a pissing contest, and you can use a rail gun for hunting, if you choose to do so.

 

[Rope2horns]

what is red castle tulsa?

http://www.tulsaredcastlegunclub.com/

 

[okie]

http://www.tulsaredcastlegunclub.com/

thanks

 

[284winner]

My response was directed to Larry, regarding designed. It wasn't meant to start a pissing contest, and you can use a rail gun for hunting, if you choose to do so.

No offense meant. Simply saying all of this is opinion and experience based knowledge. More guys here have had many more great experiences with Berger bullets on hunts than failures. If you've had bad ones, it's understandable to stop using them. Just don't see any of the opinions changing anybody elses opinion on the bullets ability to anchor animals. I've had less than perfect bullet performance with Berger bullets. They still put the animals down fast but with more tissue damage than I prefer. The more game taken, the more varied the results will be on each different animal. I've had partitions do fabulous on most animals BUT have had some go cleanly thru shoulders same size in and out. Hard to explain but it happened. I still use them because they work. It's a percentage thing basically.

 

[North Fork]

I like 185gr classic hunter better then the 185gr vld.Where i live in Idaho most of the shots are a round 300 yards. You can get shoots out to 6 7 8 hunderd yards but why. You can always work your self in a little closer and take the shot.

 

[JRS]

No offense meant. Simply saying all of this is opinion and experience based knowledge. More guys here have had many more great experiences with Berger bullets on hunts than failures. If you've had bad ones, it's understandable to stop using them. Just don't see any of the opinions changing anybody elses opinion on the bullets ability to anchor animals. I've had less than perfect bullet performance with Berger bullets. They still put the animals down fast but with more tissue damage than I prefer. The more game taken, the more varied the results will be on each different animal. I've had partitions do fabulous on most animals BUT have had some go cleanly thru shoulders same size in and out. Hard to explain but it happened. I still use them because they work. It's a percentage thing basically.

I ran into that with a Partition in the 1980's. Shot a deer with a 264 Win Mag, and the bullet didn't hit anything solid enough to cause it to expand. We recovered the deer due to blood loss and the lungs filling up with blood. After skinning it, we found a hole that looked like someone stuck an ice-pick through it.

 

[284winner]

I ran into that with a Partition in the 1980's. Shot a deer with a 264 Win Mag, and the bullet didn't hit anything solid enough to cause it to expand. We recovered the deer due to blood loss and the lungs filling up with blood. After skinning it, we found a hole that looked like someone stuck an ice-pick through it.

Yep. This 160 NP was shot from my Weatherby 7mag at 240 yards and it did hit the shoulder region quartering toward me. Went thru the shoulder area (no bone contact)and exited between ribs about mid ribcage. Small entrance, small exit. Killed the deer within 50 yards but terrible bullet performance in my opinion. Still they are a good bullet as I own thousands literally in many calibers.

 

[JRS]

Yep. This 160 NP was shot from my Weatherby 7mag at 240 yards and it did hit the shoulder region quartering toward me. Went thru the shoulder area (no bone contact)and exited between ribs about mid ribcage. Small entrance, small exit. Killed the deer within 50 yards but terrible bullet performance in my opinion. Still they are a good bullet as I own thousands literally in many calibers.

The Partitions need to encounter some type of dense mass to reliably expand, IMO.

 

[284winner]

The Partitions need to encounter some type of dense mass to reliably expand, IMO.

Ya true.

 

[JRS]

If I were hunting for a trophy, I wouldn't hesitate to use a bullet made on the original J-4 jackets. However, as I stated, I'm a meat hunter, and prefer to use a bullet that doesn't destroy too much meat. I also don't like having to dig through the meat to find and remove a bunch of shrapnel, if you can find it I do the same when hunting with my shotguns. I use heavier shot than most use, because I prefer to completely penetrate the meat, rather than have to pick-out a bunch of shot! Good Dentists are worth their weight in gold, and the price you pay for their work isn't inexpensive.