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6 Dasher fire-forming loads- Load, Jam, and Shoot (not the false shoulder method)

Gina1 said:
Did not want to use my good competition barrel for fire forming. So switched to a well used 6 dasher barrel. Tried the jamming method (as false shoulder method takes extra steps).
Had 50% miss firers. Although the round was jammed in there, with the fire pin strike, the entire case would move forward, and I would end up with a dented primer.
From now on I use the false should method.
Click to expand...
Need softer primers and lots of tension. Matt
 
Hydroform, then one firing with a real load and your ready to go.

I'm curious to hear of how many guys end up with a fully formed case after just one firing using the load long and jam method??

Cheers Rushty
 
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Rushty said:
Hydroform, then one firing with a real load and your ready to go.

I'm curious to hear of how many guys end up with a fully formed case after just one firing using the load long and jam method??

Cheers Rushty
Click to expand...
Rushty,
I am shooting a 6BRX, not a Dasher but same pretty much. I fireformed my first 200 cases using the false shoulder method and had no issues. Got to about 10-12 firings with annealing every 4th firing until primer pockets were getting too loose and finally had a head separation. Checked all the brass and found most had a thin spot above the web and ended up chucking it (Tear in my eye). Can't complain, wore out a barrel with that brass, and it shot well throughout. Fast forward, new Bartlein 5R 1-8" twist .237" barrel. Fireformed new Lapua brass using jam and shoot with naked 70 gr. Sierra BTHP and 30 gr. Varget CCI 450 primer, jammed .025" using a .267" bushing (.272" neck). Did 10 rounds this way and all formed with a slightly rounded shoulder (estimate 90% formed). Used same load with moly'd 107 Sierras and they formed up nicely. Sharp shoulder, about 2,718 fps, and good accuracy. Don't know that I would shoot them in a match, pretty slow. But, I have heard it is good to shoot a couple of times at less than top pressures, and primer pockets will last longer. I like to shoot the BRX with 107s or 105s at 3,000-3,050 and they seem to do well. Some people speak of 25 firings from cases, but I don't see that possible unless you stay under 2,900 fps. At that speed, there is no point in shooting an improved case. Standard 6 BR will almost get you there with a long barrel. Primer pockets are what suffers when you shoot at upper velocities. At 3,008 fps my primers are still,rounded at the edges. At 3,050 fps, they are flattening so the pressure is up there. I am going to try the low 3,000 fps area with this barrel and see how it goes. My wind reading skills are the weak link, not the cartridge.

My $.02
Ed
 
nfa1eab said:
Rushty,
I am shooting a 6BRX, not a Dasher but same pretty much. I fireformed my first 200 cases using the false shoulder method and had no issues. Got to about 10-12 firings with annealing every 4th firing until primer pockets were getting too loose and finally had a head separation. Checked all the brass and found most had a thin spot above the web and ended up chucking it (Tear in my eye). Can't complain, wore out a barrel with that brass, and it shot well throughout. Fast forward, new Bartlein 5R 1-8" twist .237" barrel. Fireformed new Lapua brass using jam and shoot with naked 70 gr. Sierra BTHP and 30 gr. Varget CCI 450 primer, jammed .025" using a .267" bushing (.272" neck). Did 10 rounds this way and all formed with a slightly rounded shoulder (estimate 90% formed). Used same load with moly'd 107 Sierras and they formed up nicely. Sharp shoulder, about 2,718 fps, and good accuracy. Don't know that I would shoot them in a match, pretty slow. But, I have heard it is good to shoot a couple of times at less than top pressures, and primer pockets will last longer. I like to shoot the BRX with 107s or 105s at 3,000-3,050 and they seem to do well. Some people speak of 25 firings from cases, but I don't see that possible unless you stay under 2,900 fps. At that speed, there is no point in shooting an improved case. Standard 6 BR will almost get you there with a long barrel. Primer pockets are what suffers when you shoot at upper velocities. At 3,008 fps my primers are still,rounded at the edges. At 3,050 fps, they are flattening so the pressure is up there. I am going to try the low 3,000 fps area with this barrel and see how it goes. My wind reading skills are the weak link, not the cartridge.

My $.02
Ed
Click to expand...
I have found flat base bullets work best when fire forming .
As far as brass lasting it isn't the speed but how much your sizeing the brass . Larry
 
nfa1eab said:
Pretty sure pressure loosens primer pockets, not sizing. Necks are one thing, primer pockets last depending on how hot you are running the cartridge.
Click to expand...
Pressure always loosen primer pockets . But most of the time it isn't the speed but is the choice of powder and seating depth .
My dasher I run 3070 with 105 bullets and my cases has been loaded over 20 times . Larry
 
ab_bentley said:
I foresee a contest of golden proportion brewing.

I'm in the false shoulder camp. Neck up and neck down. The main reason is the prevention of the dreaded case head separation. The brass is trapped between the bolt face and false shoulder preventing case movement on firing. The jam method works on the same principle, but bullets and be shoved into the case when jammed.

Adam
Click to expand...
I agree 100% with Adam. I dont believe a 6mm cartridge can produce enough neck tension to consistently blow just the shoulder out. When you are fireforming make sure you are getting the same measurement from the old shoulder line to the new shoulder. If you are not then you are flirting with case head separation. In my experience a false shoulder is the most consistent way to go. Just my opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

Best Regards
Scott Parks
 
I am a fairly new dasher shooter and always expand and use the false shoulder. It has worked well for me and I have not had any misfires. Cases come out looking good. Working in small batches of 10-20 cases at a time it does not seem to add much time to the case forming process.
 
That is why when i made Dashers i used a .266 neck. Where i stop the neck turner was my shoulder....... backed up with a bullet it worked great if, you remove all lube from the chamber and cases after you load them. Long seat the bullets and .003+ neck tension and a soft primer. Clean the chamber ever 5 rounds and don't let the barrel get hot. I also had better luck with 115 bullets for fire forming next best was 107 and 108's..... jim
 
This is BRX. Seems the same ballistically as the Dasher. I tried lighter bullets, and 107 gr. with 30.0 gr. to 30.5 gr. of Varget gave a nice sharp shoulder in one firing using the false shoulder method. I am convinced you need to make sure the case does not move forward when the firing pin strikes. I also use nothing but moly bullets and haven't seen an issue fire forming with them. These loads are accurate enough for 600 yard matches, you just need to remember to turn the knobs more, as they are not BRX velocity.
 
A close friend of mine used a different method. He had a slug chambered for the dasher. The slug fits inside of a single shot shotgun. He loads the brass with 8-11 grains of pistol powder then he uses grits and then dental wax to cap off the top. He is able to do 100 pieces in 30 minutes or less once the brass is loaded as mentioned. The shoulder comes out sharp and ready to shoot. I know its a different method than you mentioned.....but it gives you another option and you don't waste barrel life.

Ed
 
EBaker said:
A close friend of mine used a different method. He had a slug chambered for the dasher. The slug fits inside of a single shot shotgun. He loads the brass with 8-11 grains of pistol powder then he uses grits and then dental wax to cap off the top. He is able to do 100 pieces in 30 minutes or less once the brass is loaded as mentioned. The shoulder comes out sharp and ready to shoot. I know its a different method than you mentioned.....but it gives you another option and you don't waste barrel life.

Ed
Click to expand...
Ed have him make his die so a spent 22 rim fire casing is used. Larry
 
EBaker said:
A close friend of mine used a different method. He had a slug chambered for the dasher. The slug fits inside of a single shot shotgun. He loads the brass with 8-11 grains of pistol powder then he uses grits and then dental wax to cap off the top. He is able to do 100 pieces in 30 minutes or less once the brass is loaded as mentioned. The shoulder comes out sharp and ready to shoot. I know its a different method than you mentioned.....but it gives you another option and you don't waste barrel life.

Ed
Click to expand...
A lot of shotgun breeches are not square either by design or the way they lock up. I would put those formed cases on an indicator and make sure the case heads are still square.
 
I loaded my FF rounds with 30.0gr of Varget, and seated them 50 thou past what I consider in the lands.

Bighorn TL3 action, 25" 7 twist barrel.

105 bthp from Hornady

Brand new barrel gave me 2715 fps.

Shoots great. Can't wait to see what it does with full house dasher loads.

Lapua brass, btw
 
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