Should There Be Courtesy?

[Immike]

I have run the matches for StLouis for the last few years and we have gone against the grain with a bench class. I have been approached several times to eliminate the class by the purist. NOT ON MY Watch. They deserve a place on the line as much as anybody. We just made a place for them, simple as that. I have ran matches for over 25 years and I never told anyone not to shoot. But I have had a talk with a few of them after the match!!!!

 

[okshooter]

I have to agree with everyone else that I would be appalled to witness this type of behavior at the range, whether it is match day or not. I guess I am fortunate to shoot with the group I do. I have been shooting ftr for about three years now at the local range. My wife started shooting f open last year and an ex coworker started this year. He is new to long range shooting and reloading and came to my house for help getting started. My dad who is 74, has bad knees, has had two cancer surgeries, and weighs 300 pounds came out to help with load development because he loves being around shooting although he probably hasn't fired 30 rounds in the last 8 or 10 years. He has been coming to every match this year, mostly to support my wife and friend. After watching my friend shoot his first match he decided he might like to try it off a bench as there is no way he could go prone and get back up after. My wife, mother and I were shocked to hear him say this and anxious to make it happen. I called our match director and was told "Hell yes he can shoot, does he need to borrow a rifle?" He even said he could apply with the NRA for an exception to be included in scores. I had the opportunity to talk with several of my fellow shooters in the last weeks and mentioned this to them as well as my friend. To a man, every one of them was very encouraging and offered any assistance they could give. He plans to shoot his first match this weekend. It's these people that make competitive shooting so enjoyable to me.

 

[bozo699]

Courtesy is a character trait sadly lacking in the general population of late.

That a 'challenged' shooter was made to feel unwelcome at an established range for a scheduled match is IMHO appaling.

Since taking up this sport a little over 10 years ago I've come to feel shooters in general (there are one or two I admit I'd rather not be around much) are the finest, most respectful individuals I've ever known.

I simply can't imagine how a shooter overcoming multiple challenges to participate in a match could possibly have sufferd the indignity you've described.

One gentleman I've made the acquaintance of (who shall go unnamed here) has been to Whittington Center, Camp Perry for the Nationals, and Winnequah Gun Club (Lodi, WI) at the same time as myself and has universally been treated as a fellow competitor despite his challenges. I've shot on his position, had the honor of pulling targets in his stead, and look forward to our next meeting up.

Were he - or anyone like him - to be treated in a similar manner, my match entry also would be pulled.

Barring a genuine safety issue there's simply no reason for such an incident to occur.

Spot on and very very well stated, my thoughts exactly.
Wayne.

 

[abishai]

At my local club, we accommodate our lets say not quite spring chicken shooters by providing benches. Said benches are portable , and in my opinion are of no advantage whatsoever. We affectionately refer to this as " O F class " ( standing for Old Fart ) . If some one can hand you your a$$ on a bench, chances are they can do it off the ground. Seriously, if we wanted a shooting competition where people always complained and tried to screw each other over with the rule book , we would shoot IPSIC. If I ever saw a match director behaving in such a manner, I would also leave the match....... After urinating on his car !

 

[Tozguy]

Had an experience at the range yesterday where a person with a physical limitation (and uses a wheelchair) showed up with a helper. Another shooter moved his car so that they could park closest to the benches.
He did not ask for any favors but it was obvious that his setup at the bench was very uncomfortable for him. It was a relatively simple matter for us to try a few things to get him comfortable and smiling. All this happenned quite naturally and voluntarily. His enthusiasm for shooting rubbed off on us and we all had a great day.
It would not have been any different if it was in the context of a competition. Our range will continue to make improvements to how it accomodates persons with limitations as this is an ongoing learning opportunity for all of us.
However the range can't fix people. A match director should be expected to have a minimum of diplomacy and tact in his 'personality tool box' to deal with the unexpected.

Roland, if I had been witness to what you have related in your posts it would have ruined my day too. I can only hope that the Match director gets some feedback from enough participants so that he can work out a better plan for next time.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I just went through a year's supply of Duct tape wrapping my head while reading this thread as I really thought it was going to explode. At Bayou Rifles we have portable benches just for this instance. This past weekend, I rapidly made arrangements for one of the shooters who could not get prone. I added a lane, the guys moved a bench right to that spot without being asked and he shot with no issues. No fuss, no muss.

It's the very least we can do.

 

[Longshooter70]

I was there with this individual and other friend. We pulled up on the line and unloaded our gear. The match director stated that no one could park on the berm... no problem, we moved the truck down below the berm. I shot first and the individual( I'll call him G) and our other friend C went to the pitts. After the relay, I caught a ride to the pitts. Once the pitts were sealed and targets went up there was an announcement on the radio that there would be no shooter on target 6. I asked the Pitt Boss if he could find out why. He radioed up and never got an answer. I was worried so I sent C a text message. Cell service there was crap and it took a while to get an answer. When I did, C told me that the match director had been a major Dick to G and himself and they withdrew from the shoot. I was mad... I told the Pitt Boss to unseal the pitts because I was going to the line... He called the line and told them I was coming out. The guy I was shooting with gave me a ride up. When I got there, the gear was packed and they were waiting on me. G explained the situation. All three of us were furious. The match director said he was going to refund their money so I went to collect. I looked him in the eye and asked him WTF? He could not look me in the eye and gave some half assed answer. He gave me their money back and said since I had already shot one relay he wouldn't give mine back... I told him to shove it.... didn't want it and it'd be the last he'd ever get from any of us... He just stammered that's fine and scooted off... As we were leaving he said something that none of us heard and G yelled back to him that we wouldn't be back... The match director yelled back, "that's fine by me".
The match director's actions were unexcusable. There is no way that you treat anyone the way that my friend was treated, especially a combat wounded veteran that served his country for a lot of years. He is a very proud man and a very good man and I'm damn proud to call him friend.

 

[bozo699]

I was there with this individual and other friend. We pulled up on the line and unloaded our gear. The match director stated that no one could park on the berm... no problem, we moved the truck down below the berm. I shot first and the individual( I'll call him G) and our other friend C went to the pitts. After the relay, I caught a ride to the pitts. Once the pitts were sealed and targets went up there was an announcement on the radio that there would be no shooter on target 6. I asked the Pitt Boss if he could find out why. He radioed up and never got an answer. I was worried so I sent C a text message. Cell service there was crap and it took a while to get an answer. When I did, C told me that the match director had been a major Dick to G and himself and they withdrew from the shoot. I was mad... I told the Pitt Boss to unseal the pitts because I was going to the line... He called the line and told them I was coming out. The guy I was shooting with gave me a ride up. When I got there, the gear was packed and they were waiting on me. G explained the situation. All three of us were furious. The match director said he was going to refund their money so I went to collect. I looked him in the eye and asked him WTF? He could not look me in the eye and gave some half assed answer. He gave me their money back and said since I had already shot one relay he wouldn't give mine back... I told him to shove it.... didn't want it and it'd be the last he'd ever get from any of us... He just stammered that's fine and scooted off... As we were leaving he said something that none of us heard and G yelled back to him that we wouldn't be back... The match director yelled back, "that's fine by me".
The match director's actions were unexcusable. There is no way that you treat anyone the way that my friend was treated, especially a combat wounded veteran that served his country for a lot of years. He is a very proud man and a very good man and I'm damn proud to call him friend.

WOW!!!!! totally unbelievable!!!!!!!!! and unexceptable!!!!!!! My best friend is in a chair, we do everything together, we have a side by side 4 wheeler we hunt on and we go to some shoots together, everyone has always treated Dave with respect and they dammed well better continue as long as I am around, he is a wounded Veteran as well, and I could not fathom not helping him set his gear up, other always help too, for the most part he does it all himself but getting his rig closer to the line is always a big help for him and a consideration that has NEVER been a issue even though there are rules about the berm and parking, I have no idea where this range in question is but if they want to continue I suggest you get a new match director!!!!!
Wayne.

 

[savageshooter86]

John this is a shame!!! Shoot me an email. I would like to hear where this was so I can assure I will not ever shoot there

Just makes me mad since my mom is"handicapped" and if I ever saw someone treat her our anyone else bad it may be a bag day for the other person

I hope he gets out to another match soon and enjoys the time shooting with friends and fellow shooters!!!

 

[RStewart]

Where is this range? Who's running it? A bunch of 5 year olds? I definitely want to avoid this place!
The MD of this range evidently doesn't know what it means we we say "it's all about the shooters!"

 

[Killshot]

Roland's posts got me angry, Longshooter's post has me PISSED.

Please out this idiot and the name of his little fiefdom.

 

[noload]

Power trip Match directors, just got to blow it out of proportion. Or the fellow shooter who thinks he might get beat by the 80yr old guy shooting off a bench ??????

 

[perry42]

As a shooter that started to compete back in 1970 at Patuxent River, MD I would label the Match Directors behavior as inexcusable. Much of my enjoyment at a match comes from meeting fellow competitors. At 74 years of age I'm not as quick as I used to be but I would pull targets for a handicapped shooter any time.
WHERE WAS THIS MATCH HELD??

perry42

 

[ab_bentley]

As a shooter that started to compete back in 1970 at Patuxent River, MD I would label the Match Directors behavior as inexcusable. Much of my enjoyment at a match comes from meeting fellow competitors. At 74 years of age I'm not as quick as I used to be but I would pull targets for a handicapped shooter any time.
WHERE WAS THIS MATCH HELD??

perry42

The thread is three years old...pretty sure it's been dealt with.

 

[Milo 2.0]

The thread is three years old...pretty sure it's been dealt with.

Who cares, still as relevant today as then, reminders never have hurt anyone.

 

[ab_bentley]

Who cares, still as relevant today as then, reminders never have hurt anyone.

While it may be relevant, it's not the point I was making. The fact that people bring these threads back to life, like it happened yesterday and people only skimming the thread and posting a "let's tie this SOB handicap hating club to a stake" response, doesn't do anyone any good. In fact it would bring to life things people probably have worked really hard to overcome, mistakes made in omission or ignorance. So while yes it may have happened, it happened 3yrs ago and the problem has probably been resolved and put in the past. The only thing bringing the thread to life does is stir the pot. But hey, I'm sure there are people on here that would help throw lumber on an old fire.

 

[Warhorse Development]

One of the reasons I continue shooting NRA competitions, be it f-class, service rifle, and recently Palma, is that I love the people I shoot with. I look forward to the first match of the year all winter, not only because it's a match but because it's like coming home after being deployed. It's a family reunion and everyone there is so damned happy to see you.

Many folks have asked me about shooting competitions, especially NRA matches. I've told them to show up with what you have. The folks there will help you out completely. They will tell you tips, tricks, and secrets and try to get you to your very best. And it's not that they don't want to beat you, they do. They just want to beat you when your at your very best and visa versa.

I like to shoot other styles more technically (prs style), but I will always shoot NRA matches because we are family and the environment is great for me and my children.

Maybe that is just Montana, but I don't think so. We have shooters come up from around the nation and the world for our Missoula matches and each person I've met there is the same, friendly, helpful, and glad to see you competing. Also, if I don't bring my kids everyone asks where they are. They like seeing a seven year old in high viz orange with his toy rifle laying beside his daddy on the firing line, learning firearms safety, wind, and proper respect for our country.

God bless.
WHD