Want an example of why to true an action? Heres why!

[vmaxpro]

Chasing a runout problem I got it, and fixed it. Pays to be a machinist i spun a fresh fired case on a sinclair concentricity gage. I thought odd, why is the case head " crooked" ( in laymans terms" the rest of the case is maybe .0002 tenths run out to itself. The head, .000-.013. Strange you ask? Well i tear the gun down. I get the face of the action, threads, and bolt race way indicated to each other to .0015. Not too bad!!! So i hit the face of lug and zero one side, rotate to check the other side aaannnnd .0155!! This would explain some broken bolt head pins ive heard about. So I true it up, reassemble and headspace. Fire five rounds and what do ya know, straight cases. I get the floating bolt head but come on savage indicate your shit in dont be lazy!!!!

 

[vmaxpro]

Whats amazing is it still shot very very well. But every now and again it would get a really wild flier.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

.... I get the floating bolt head but come on savage indicate your shit in dont be lazy!!!!

Can't expect too much from a cheap Savage rifle. They're cheap because they don't pay for the time and expense on those types of details. The floating bolt head was their economical half ass solution for their bad machining.

 

[savagedasher]

I have 3 target action . One had trued the other two they were as near perfect all that I did was to skim the flange it wasn't out but did it because of the work it took set it up.
Did lap the lugs they had 70 percent contact . I can inter change barrel on all 3 and never have to adjust the scope over 2" at 100 . The mark I have for timing is the direction of the bullet . Both the accura triggers are 4 oz . The evolution trigger is 2oz When I change scopes the impact is no more then 4"
All 3 Shoot as good or better then my custom actions . Larry

 

[hoz53]

I have 3 target action . One had trued the other two they were as near perfect all that I did was to skim the flange it wasn't out but did it because of the work it took set it up.
Did lap the lugs they had 70 percent contact . I can inter change barrel on all 3 and never have to adjust the scope over 2" at 100 . The mark I have for timing is the direction of the bullet . Both the accura triggers are 4 oz . The evolution trigger is 2oz When I change scopes the impact is no more then 4"
All 3 Shoot as good or better then my custom actions . Larry

Ledd's got it right. The last savage I have is going to have a new home soon. Tried em and found out they are not my cup of tea.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The last savage action I owned was a SS 116 model with a custom barrel. The rear receiver scope mounting surface was so far off plane and level with the front scope mounting surface that it would torque scope bodies out of alignment to the point where elevation and windage ajustments would degrade (lose full travel) or sometimes even freeze up. Fixed the issue by shim bedding under the low side of the rear scope base. Was not impressed. Had to true it, lap the lugs, and get rid of that awful accutrigger as well before it was half way decent. Needless to say, I do not own that action any longer. Sold it at a very discounted rate while making the issue known to the buyer.

Savage actions can be MADE into very accurate rifles if you put time and money into them, just the same as a Rem 700. But they are not on par with custom actions at all. Not even close

 

[savagedasher]

The last savage action I owned was a SS 116 model with a custom barrel. The rear receiver scope mounting surface was so far off plane and level with the front scope mounting surface that it would torque scope bodies out of alignment to the point where elevation and windage ajustments would degrade (lose full travel) or sometimes even freeze up. Fixed the issue by shim bedding under the low side of the rear scope base. Was not impressed. Had to true it, lap the lugs, and get rid of that awful accutrigger as well before it was half way decent. Needless to say, I do not own that action any longer. Sold it at a very discounted rate while making the issue known to the buyer.

Savage actions can be MADE into very accurate rifles if you put time and money into them, just the same as a Rem 700. But they are not on par with custom actions at all. Not even close

Most of the new action are cnc made . The new Remington I think are far better. Savage has done the same. Larry

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Most of the new action are cnc made . The new Remington I think are far better. Savage has done the same. Larry

That's good to hear. Should give folks more value for their money.

 

[centershot]

And I bought a Savage because of all the talk about bad Remington actions. Heard that buying a Remington was a crap shoot. either got a good one or a bad one.

 

[rogn]

The limited number of Savage actions Ive delt with has me convinced that Savage has not had a QC dept, or at best its been part time. A couple have been astonishing and a couple astonishing in the opposite direction. So far Ive been lucky enough not to get a bad Rem, mediocre but not bad.

 

[billlarson]

Can't expect too much from a cheap Savage rifle. They're cheap because they don't pay for the time and expense on those types of details. The floating bolt head was their economical half ass solution for their bad machining.

I own and have owned lotsa .22 rimfires in 50 years of competitive shooting,hunting and plinking.From top of the line Walthers,Anshutz m54,rems,win,mossbergs...... raised 2 sons and now am outfitting 3 grandsons......
the savage line of rimfires will often outshoot guns costing 4x as much....
bill larson

 

[gotcha]

That's good to hear. Should give folks more value for their money.

CNC or not, quality is established by tight QC standards. ALL the mfg.'s are reducing the number and quality of their production staff in order to increase profit. And it seems, especially in the case of Savage, that more & more they use their customers as the 1st stop in their QC process rather than the last ....... How many horror stories have we heard? ........ And yes, I have several trued Savages that you'd have to pry from my cold, dead hands before I'd sell them. ...... Also have trued Remy's that shoot well. Personally I still favor my Savages since I did so much of the work myself rather than hiring it out and they provided for a valuable learning tool.

 

[savagedasher]

CNC or not, quality is established by tight QC standards. ALL the mfg.'s are reducing the number and quality of their production staff in order to increase profit. And it seems, especially in the case of Savage, that more & more they use their customers as the 1st stop in their QC process rather than the last ....... How many horror stories have we heard? ........ And yes, I have several trued Savages that you'd have to pry from my cold, dead hands before I'd sell them. ...... Also have trued Remy's that shoot well. Personally I still favor my Savages since I did so much of the work myself rather than hiring it out and they provided for a valuable learning tool.

Can I suggest you check what CNC machine does . Quality then is determined what the input is . The critical process of a action is the lug ,lug ramp threading and the face . That part action should be done without the part being removed . Larry

 

[amlevin]

And I bought a Savage because of all the talk about bad Remington actions. Heard that buying a Remington was a crap shoot. either got a good one or a bad one.

Want a good Remington action and don't want to pay "through the wazoo" for a custom/clone, buy a trued action from PTG. Action is trued and comes with a one-piece PTG bolt and M-16 extractor. Add barrel, trigger, stock. No more need to throw away the OEM crappy pieces and have the action re-worked by a gunsmith (or time in your own basement shop). Action with One-Piece bolt runs ~$600-$700 depending on Carbon Steel or Stainless Steel.

 

[normmatzen]

I would like to invite all you Savage bashers to an NBRSA long range BR match we have at the Sacramento Shooting Center each month.

It will give you a chance to be beat by a number of excellent rifles and shooters using Savage Precision Target Actions!

 

[6MMsteve]

I would like to invite all you Savage bashers to an NBRSA long range BR match we have at the Sacramento Shooting Center each month.

It will give you a chance to be beat by a number of excellent rifles and shooters using Savage Precision Target Actions!

There you go Bat Action Boys Don't be Scared

 

[vmaxpro]

Dont get me wrong I love my savages. The target action is an excellent value. But if I was an engineer at savage, I would change that process. I can see the lugs are finished with an endmill, which would be fine on just a hunting rifle. However for it being a " precision target action" I would change that to leave about .003-.005 stock on the lug faces and finish face it when its threaded. Cnc's are great, but if the guy running it is just a button pusher and snaps a tool and changes it without checking, is how this happens. I knew something was up, I used to have to give it an extra little push to close the bolt but now its perfect.

 

[hoz53]

Dont get me wrong I love my savages. The target action is an excellent value. But if I was an engineer at savage, I would change that process. I can see the lugs are finished with an endmill, which would be fine on just a hunting rifle. However for it being a " precision target action" I would change that to leave about .003-.005 stock on the lug faces and finish face it when its threaded. Cnc's are great, but if the guy running it is just a button pusher and snaps a tool and changes it without checking, is how this happens. I knew something was up, I used to have to give it an extra little push to close the bolt but now its perfect.

Oh no Oh no say it ain't so-- I'm not a savage basher am I?? My last savage is a purdy accurate rifle. It's got a Shilen barrel on it. I know a savage can be made to shoot as accurate as a Remington. I dislike savages because of the wonky fire control system. To me the remington bolt/trigger system is elegant simplicity. The same savage system is the opposite(junk and more complicated ) and I cuss them ever time I work on one. A bonus is I can put a jewel in my Remington. Those Rem 783s look like an improvement in a barrel nut rifle over a savage to me but I've gotta investigate them more. I'm gonna get one with the money I get out of my savage to use my old savage barrels on.

 

[Phil]

I don`t own a Savage, so I won`t comment on them, but I can tell you that Monday`s and Friday`s make up 40% of the work week soooo I`m sure there are other manufacturers with clinkers out there too.....

 

[rifleman700]

Here is a small sample and history I have with Savage Arms. In the past 10 years I have purchased 3 rimfire and 3 centerfire rifles and here is my opinion of what I received.

First was a 93R17F 17 HMR rifle. This was a pre-accutrigger model. Out of the box the rifle was horrible. Trigger pull was around 10 lbs with a ton of creep. A Rifle Basix trigger kit fixed that problem. Within the first 200 rounds I was ready to throw it away or use it as a pry bar. Accuracy was 2.5-3" at 100 yards no matter what I fed it. I stayed with it and as the groups would open up I would clean the bore. I finally got it to shoot around 1.25" with the newer hornady ammo once the barrel smoothed up. I had wanted to re-stock it but there was never a stock that was right for the sporter weight barrel. I have recently given up on finding a stock and bedded it in the cheap plastic stock it came in along with stiffening the forend with the same marine tex I bedded it with. Will test it here within the next week to see if this helps. Lots of cheap metal and plastic with this model. In the end I came to the conclusion that for less than $200 what was I expecting??

Next was a Mark ll FV-SR 22LR. I had heard a lot of good things about this model but once again it never lived up to the hype, at least with mine. I bought it to do a little 22LR comps with but it never shot near what my T-Bolt does. Accutrigger adjustments on this rifle never worked so I opted for another RB and tried a Boyd's stock but it was still just a mediocre performer. My new CZ455 shoots bug holes but it costs quite a bit more.

Next was a Model 16 FCSS Weather Warrior in 243 Win I bought for my son to use as a deer rifle. I had heard great things about the newer Savage rifles but this one did not live up to the hype either. The best most loads would do was right around 1" at 100 yds. I expected more but it has never done better. I may eventually get rid of the accustock and try it again but for now it will just be an average shooter. For comparison I do not have a single Rem 700 that shoots over 1" at 100 yds and most do much better and the custom ones are all sub 1/2" guns. Accutrigger sucks on this rifle.

Next was a BMAG 17 WSM. Same issues as the 93R17 and I have also bedded and stiffened the forend so it will also be re-tested soon. Bolt handle on this rifle is horrible. It is so short there is not a lot of leverage to cycle the bolt and the bmag needs a little longer bolt handle to do this. Glades Armory fixed me up with one that works perfectly. Accutrigger adjustments on this one will also not work. To be fair my T-Bolt adjustments would not work also but I found a fix to lower the pull weight by shortening a spring and it has been surprisingly effective.

Next was an older/used Model 110 30-06 pre-accutrigger rifle with wood stock. Owner said it was a tack driver but I guess his definition of tack driver and mine differ. I plan to do a build around this action so I have kept it around. It may have once shot but it doesn't now so to be fair I will say the barrel is probably shot out. Bought it for the action to begin with so its not a big deal.

This last one was a big disappointment. Its a Model 11 LW hunter in 6.5 CM. I picked this up from a friend who was in need of some cash so I bought this rifle from him and planned on keeping the scope and selling the rifle. The rifle came with 4 boxes of factory 140 amax ammo with only one box having been shot so I cleaned the bore and headed to the range with the chrono. Best group was around 1.5" at 100 yds and the velocities were all over the place. From a cold bore I could get 2 shots within an inch of each other but the third was always thrown out of the group. With this pencil thin barrel I suspected that the barrel needed to be stress relieved and I thought this might help it. I have a 7-08 AI that has a Shilen barrel only slightly larger and it will hold its accuracy through 3, 3 shot groups easily. I have since ordered a Shilen pre-fit barrel and screwed it on myself and bedded it in to a McMillan HE stock and it shoots very well with both 130 vld's and 143 eld-x's. But for a rifle that lists for $991 it should have been better. Oh, and yes I will be replacing the accutrigger. Its just ok but I still don't like the whole lever thing.

Another thing that is frustrating about Savage is getting replacement parts. When I put the 11 LWH in the McMillan stock I did not want to use their DBM system because I ordered the stock as a blind magazine trigger guard inletting only stock so I called Savage to get just a standard blind magazine replacement. They asked for my serial number on the rifle and I knew quickly where this was going. They tried to sell me the DBM assembly and I kept telling them that this was not what I wanted but they were unable to grasp what I was needing and therefore did not get the sale. I have never had a problem getting any type of replacement part from Remington. Now that being said I very rarely call Remington.

Small sample of examples I know but as is usually the case with internet hype its all a little exaggerated. I think when it comes to Savage in most cases, you get what you pay for. ( except with my 11 LWH ). I have seen one of the earlier model LRPV that was a real shooter but it had good components.

Remington faults - crap stocks although better than Savage and hit and miss with triggers. I usually just do a Darrel Holland kit or replace it with a Timney 510.

Savage faults - crap stocks, I mean really crappy stocks, horrible bottom metal on most of the rimfires and the accutrigger to me is cheap. Thank heavens for Rifle Basix.