Berger Hybrid Target 105`s trimming and pointing???

[Phil]

Does anyone trim the Meplat`s and point the Berger 105 Hybrids?????

What are you using for your trimming and pointing duties????

Phil.

 

[Jet]

Phil

I have found the 105 Hybrids respond well to trimming and pointing. I use a Montour County Rifles Meplat
Uniforming Tool http://montourcountyrifles.com/meplat_uniforming_tool.html and a Whidden Pointing Die. How much to trim and point should be handled like all aspects of tuning.

Good Shooting

Rich

 

[Phil]

Thanks Rich............

 

[Mozella]

Phil

I have found the 105 Hybrids respond well to trimming and pointing. I use a Montour County Rifles Meplat
Uniforming Tool http://montourcountyrifles.com/meplat_uniforming_tool.html and a Whidden Pointing Die. How much to trim and point should be handled like all aspects of tuning.

Good Shooting

Rich

Yeah, I also like the Montour county trimmer for my 6mm 105 Hybrids; or more specifically their tiny counter sink cutting tool. It's an extra step, but it does a real nice job getting the meplat ready for pointing. After all, if you don't make a perfect consistent point, you probably shouldn't be pointing.

I trim and point my VLDs too, both 6mm 105s and .223 80gr.

 

[dmoran]

Phil -

I trim if my bullet qualification after the seater point have variation beyond my acceptance. Next I point, and then test to see if there is an actual gain on the target (at 1000). Reason I have to test, is because some times with some bullets, I have seen accuracy depleted by pointing/trimming.

Exceptions; myself being a LR-BR group shooter, I am after raw accuracy gains for best grouping capability and not ballistic advantages. Someone who is after best score or best ballistics, may gain by the ballistic advantages at the expense of some accuracy.

My 2-Cents
Donovan

 

[rifleman700]

I trim only if using them for hunting.

 

[mikecr]

Exceptions; myself being a LR-BR group shooter, I am after raw accuracy gains for best grouping capability and not ballistic advantages. Someone who is after best score or best ballistics, may gain by the ballistic advantages at the expense of some accuracy.

This description seems muddled a bit.
Grouping is precision.
Scoring is accuracy.

Meplats greatly affect BC.
Reducing meplats (to a limit set by the ogive) increases BC, which reduces wind drift, which nobody can perfectly account for.
Of course consistency in this comes down to how well you point, and affects both accuracy AND precision. Why both? Because closing meplats improves BC and also reaches a point of diminished returns. So variances there matters less, and they are smaller(because the meplat is now smaller).
Meplat trimming in itself can provide matching BC, but lower BC. To reduce potentially larger variances in this, meplat diameters would have to carefully be taken to same diameter, and merely trimming noses/bullets to the same length does not make meplats the same diameter(it only makes noses/bullets same length). Well, unless the ogives have first been qualified to the same radius, and your trimming tool takes datum from that radius(like the Montour, or Hoover).
Best, but not marketed (that I'm aware of), would be a trimmer having a stop at desired meplat diameter.
Anyway, in practice trimming alone is more for precision than accuracy. Why not accuracy? Because trimming does not improve accuracy. Any time you lower BC, and shoot with any conditions, accuracy takes a bigger hit.
Some of the most impressive 1Kyd world record precision, is >1/2moa accurate.

 

[dkhunt14]

Mike it is hard to say why but Donovan is right. Some kinds of bullets or lots of bullets suffer accuracy from pointing. Others dont. I know it raises the BC and makes them drop less and be affected less by wind but some of them lose overall accuracy. In 1000 yard BR sometimes a relay is lost by less then a quarter inch. Sometimes pointing makes you lose a lot more then that. If you are shooting F-Class score counts and wind drift is more important. If you lose an inch or so of accuracy but pick up points it helps them. But in BR it hurts you if that happens. I believe that is what he is trying to say. In my testing I have seen some loss of accuracy by pointing some kinds of bullets. I feel grouping is accuracy and scoring is precision. Matt

 

[mikecr]

dkhunt14, I agree that donovan understands his meaning, and I agree with both of you that testing is prudent.
But grouping is NOT accuracy. Look it up. Look at the picture in my prior post. Incredible precision, while relatively poor accuracy.
This is accuracy:

 

[Ned Ludd]

For a scoped rifle, the term "accurate" has almost no meaning. There are very specific mechanisms for POA to be the same as POI...they're called "elevation" and "windage" turrets.

If done properly, trimming/pointing will improve the external ballistics of almost any traditional lead core/jacketed bullet over no treatment. In my hands, the pointing process also improves precision, or grouping. Side by side tests of otherwise identical loads with unpointed and pointed bullets in several different rifles consistently reveal higher tighter groupings with higher X-counts for loads with pointed bullets. Honestly, I don't care too much about the very slight decrease in bullet drops at a distance, that's why the scope has an elevation turret. However, the slight increase in wind resistance due to improved BC is always welcome, and may well be a significant contributing factor to the increased precision I have observed for loads with pointed bullets.

 

[paulT]

I sort my 200g hybrid bullets by measuring ogive and overall bullet Length and batch accordingly i also trim and point and close meplats by about 2/3 has anyone found accuracy decrease when closing meplats with 200g hybrids more than 2/3 when shooting 1000y+ distances would almost closing meplats when pointing decrease accuracy.

 

[AAA]

dkhunt14, I agree that donovan understands his meaning, and I agree with both of you that testing is prudent.
But grouping is NOT accuracy. Look it up. Look at the picture in my prior post. Incredible precision, while relatively poor accuracy.
This is accuracy:
View attachment 988488

Exactly.

Precision + Scope Clicks = Accuracy. The quality of either can be determined by the size of the group

In testing I want a small group where ever it prints. The scope click adjustments then brings the group into the center.