Brass issues Why? Why? Why?

[Nowhere Man]

Let's say, I have 50 pieces of 308 brass. All are from the same lot. All have been fired equal times from the same rifle, using the same bullet and same powder charge. All 50 are full length sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred. Before loading, I chamber checked them. 45 chamber as expected. 3 will be slightly tighter and 2 will be tight-tight. I can still close the bolt but, it's tighter than I'd like it to be.

What am I doing? What's causing the brass to be different?

 

[memo43]

How are you measuring your powder charge.
Also case lube what are you using?

 

[22BRGUY]

Let's say, I have 50 pieces of 308 brass. All are from the same lot. All have been fired equal times from the same rifle, using the same bullet and same powder charge. All 50 are full length sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred. Before loading, I chamber checked them. 45 chamber as expected. 3 will be slightly tighter and 2 will be tight-tight. I can still close the bolt but, it's tighter than I'd like it to be.

What am I doing? What's causing the brass to be different?

Many possible reasons but most likely not your fault.

 

[JamesnTN]

Are you annealing? If not that's one culprit, make sure also you lube your cases equally when sizing.

 

[ireload2]

I assume that you have your die setting locked with the lock ring.
Lube the tight cases and size them again very slowly and let the ram dwell in the full up position for 3 to 4 seconds.
Lower the ram about 1/2" and slowly size the cases again and let the ram dwell again. Repeat a third time.

What is happening is your sizing speed (how fast you raise the ram and how long it dwells) is not slow or long enough. You may not be getting enough lube on your cases either.
When you fire a case it is like an inflated balloon. When you size it, the sides of the die contact the case body long before the shoulder is touched. As you squeeze in the sides of the case the shoulder will be pushed forward. The shoulder is the only part of the case that is unsupported in the early part of the sizing stroke.
The shoulder will stay bulged forward causing difficulty in chambering. To correct the bulged shoulder you need a little more time or a little more lube or both.

The problem is caused by very small variations in your sizing technique. Either you need more lube or more time or even a different die setting. However because you already have most of your cases sized to fit you probably do not need to change the die setting.
To identify these issues as they happen, a Hornady datum bushing gauge works really well. You will be able to see only .001 or .002 differences in the position of the shoulder. You can do the same thing with your rifle bolt but the rifle cannot tell you if you are off .005 or .001. The gauge will tell you where your should is in comparison to a fired case.

Once you get a good technique worked out you may find you are sizing a little too much when you add dwell and lube. If so just back up the die.
If you have the Hornady gauge you will be able to size 100 cases and have each one turn out exactly the same but only after checking them and a little practice.

Let's say, I have 50 pieces of 308 brass. All are from the same lot. All have been fired equal times from the same rifle, using the same bullet and same powder charge. All 50 are full length sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred. Before loading, I chamber checked them. 45 chamber as expected. 3 will be slightly tighter and 2 will be tight-tight. I can still close the bolt but, it's tighter than I'd like it to be.

What am I doing? What's causing the brass to be different?

 

[dmoran]

As 22BRGUY stated, may not be your fault and could certainly be variation in those brass themselves.
But of some possibilities:
- inconsistent lube
- dirty die
- stroking the press handle to fast or inconsistently when sizing
- fired in a hot chamber or "cooked round" effect

Good Luck
Donovan

 

[ShootDots]

Let's say, I have 50 pieces of 308 brass. All are from the same lot. All have been fired equal times from the same rifle, using the same bullet and same powder charge. All 50 are full length sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred. Before loading, I chamber checked them. 45 chamber as expected. 3 will be slightly tighter and 2 will be tight-tight. I can still close the bolt but, it's tighter than I'd like it to be.

What am I doing? What's causing the brass to be different?

As your brass "ages", as in getting work-hardened, the brass is not responding the same way, when you size it, as when it was more malleable. My guess is you are only bumping the shoulder back 1 to 1.5 thousandths. Try going back 3 thousandths and see if that don't solve your problem.

 

[savagedasher]

I can have the same happen Re lube and size again . Same problem But not as tight . Anneal problem gone Remove the expanding ball problem gone . Larry

 

[gpoldblue]

Let's say, I have 50 pieces of 308 brass. All are from the same lot. All have been fired equal times from the same rifle, using the same bullet and same powder charge. All 50 are full length sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred. Before loading, I chamber checked them. 45 chamber as expected. 3 will be slightly tighter and 2 will be tight-tight. I can still close the bolt but, it's tighter than I'd like it to be.

What am I doing? What's causing the brass to be different?

Yes,you'd think all the brass from the same lot would age(work harden) at the same rate if you do as you have done,BUT,it doesn't always happen that way.
I have found that even with weight sorted, same lot,they don't age(work harden) at the same rate....I get bolt "click" with some before others. I think that annealing is a "bandaid"...your not really curing the cause. I think the cause is lack of uniformity in the brass alloy.
I use Lapua brass almost exclusi

I can have the same happen Re lube and size again . Same problem But not as tight . Anneal problem gone Remove the expanding ball problem gone . Larry

Depends on where the interference is...is it case head,body,shoulder,headspce,or just plain work hardening. I've seen cases work harden so much you couldn't size them. When you removed the case from the die,even after screwing the die down further,the case springs back. You can't just keep screwing the sizing die down....creates excessive headspace. Some
will say to anneal,but 1st find out where the interference is. Probably about time for new brass...if "some" are giving trouble,the rest will soon follow. Good luck.

 

[savagedasher]

Yes,you'd think all the brass from the same lot would age(work harden) at the same rate if you do as you have done,BUT,it doesn't always happen that way.
I have found that even with weight sorted, same lot,they don't age(work harden) at the same rate....I get bolt "click" with some before others. I think that annealing is a "bandaid"...your not really curing the cause. I think the cause is lack of uniformity in the brass alloy.
I use Lapua brass almost exclusi


Depends on where the interference is...is it case head,body,shoulder,headspce,or just plain work hardening. I've seen cases work harden so much you couldn't size them. When you removed the case from the die,even after screwing the die down further,the case springs back. You can't just keep screwing the sizing die down....creates excessive headspace. Some
will say to anneal,but 1st find out where the interference is. Probably about time for new brass...if "some" are giving trouble,the rest will soon follow. Good luck.

I have loaded my brass over 25 times some I have annealed and some that I haven't both I can size to where the close proper .
Bushing die don't work . Sizing with a expanded ball doesn't work also . After a few firings the cases get a donut when that happens I can size it externally ok But with the expander ball expand the inside and changes both the neck size and pulls the shoulder foward . The reason for annealing is to lower the resisance it takes size . If a case hasn't be over pressured so the head is expanded sizing will work . Larry

 

[Shynloco]

All great responses and possibilities. But care to tell us the make of the brass, were they new when you started, how many times they've been fired and when were they annealed if at all? Thx.

Alex

 

[CaptainMal]

What do the tight ones measure? I mean, you really should have tools from Hornady or Sinclair to measure the shoulder/headspace size of the cases. If they are the same as others and obviously smaller than the ones just shot before being sized, there must be other issues.

Head size can be measured. Same with neck size and length. With the proper tools, it's easy to really see. Without measuring instruments you can follow all the good advice you just got. Only thing is you are kind of like a dog chasing his tail.

Get the proper tools and measure.

 

[Nowhere Man]

Wow! Lots of good info. Thank you. I read lots of things I've probably been doing wrong. Soo much to learn.

 

[mcookoc]

Let's say, I have 50 pieces of 308 brass. All are from the same lot. All have been fired equal times from the same rifle, using the same bullet and same powder charge. All 50 are full length sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred. Before loading, I chamber checked them. 45 chamber as expected. 3 will be slightly tighter and 2 will be tight-tight. I can still close the bolt but, it's tighter than I'd like it to be.

What am I doing? What's causing the brass to be different?

does this happen after shooting about 5 rounds and gets tighter as you go? possible heat expansion in barrel.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I'll reiterate a point already mentioned because it's worth reinforcement. Measure the various dimensions cases that chamber easily and compare to the same measurements of those that don't. If you don't have the tools to do that, they should probably go on your list of future purchases. Any time you have an issue that potentially involves something you can directly measure and quantify, that is the place to start. Direct measurements and comparison (whenever possible) are far more likely to allow you to better understand where the problem actually lies and how to correct it, even if it is simply for posting the question here at the forum.

 

[Nowhere Man]

Again, thank you.

 

[Shaggy357]

There is variation even in the same lot.....Normal distribution says that 2-3 cases out of 50 will fall outside one standard deviation. When you start your car in the morning, it needs to warm up a little before it performs at it's best. Same with stamping equipment used in making brass. A lot of the time the first few hundred brass of the day are culled out, but not always. I had some 32 Mag cases from Federal when they first came out. 1 or 2 out of every 10 would split down the side on the first firing. I sent these in the Federal and they said some of the cases didn't go through annealing properly. The 8 or 9 that didn't split are on their 4th or 5th loading by now. Same lot...

As stated above, I wouldn't beat yourself up over something you likely cannot control. Do your best and toss the cases that don't want to perform for you.

Steve

 

[243winxb]

Let's say, I have 50 pieces of 308 brass. All are from the same lot. All have been fired equal times from the same rifle, using the same bullet and same powder charge. All 50 are full length sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred. Before loading, I chamber checked them. 45 chamber as expected. 3 will be slightly tighter and 2 will be tight-tight. I can still close the bolt but, it's tighter than I'd like it to be.

What am I doing? What's causing the brass to be different?

Buy redding competition shell holder set.

 

[AckleymanII]

Again, thank you.

Rockwell hardness in brass will vary up to 6% in some brands in the same lot. Some will have more spring back than others. Few if any will ever consider this issue. You can try culling and see if your uniformity gets better.

 

[711rollerdog]

A case length headspace gauge may be in order. Quick and easy.

https://ballistictools.com/store/sheridan-engineering-308-win-slotted-gauge

I'm with Savage Dasher on the expander ball, especially when running tight headspace clearances