Stumped

[J.d. Popkes]

shooting a buddy's rifle, savage 6.5/284. 140 Berger VLD hunting, nosler brass, 250 primers, h4831sc.

Shoots .3" at 100, shooting 3.5" at 250yds. Did this with wlr primers so switched to 250's. Now same thing. Haven't checked the twist, supposedly it's an 8. Didn't get to chronograph yet, usually do it after I find a load. Seating depth at 250 yard groups were touching lands, 8 thou jam, 8 thou jump. Powder charge that shoots .3" at 100 yds is 52.5 shows very little pressure. Has crazy long throat, coal is 3.115, which puts the boat tail/bearing surface roughly half way in the neck. Has 3 thou neck tension, no crimp, bullets stay put in magazine when fired. Seems to be broken in for factory bbl, quit copper fouling too bad around 50 rds. Now on about 120 rds.

I torqued accustock per the savage directions rings and rail tight.

Seriously considering wrapping this p.o.s. Around a tree!!!!!!

What am I overlooking?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Lapua40X]

... savage 6.5/284. 140 Berger VLD hunting, nosler brass, 250 primers, h4831sc. What am I overlooking?.

savage 6.5/284. (Model 111 ?)
Shoots .3" at 100
3.5" at 250yds
(bench/sand bags; good quality rest; bipod; with or without rear bag)
WLR primers
250 (CCI)
Haven't checked the twist (If it's a 111 it's a 1:8 but it's always a good idea to validate that early in the process.)
Powder charge that shoots .3" at 100 yds is 52.5
crazy long throat, coal is 3.115 (?)
boat tail/bearing surface roughly half way in the neck (follow Berger's OAL testing recommendations)
3 thou neck tension (A little snug for my taste)
no crimp
bullets stay put in magazine when fired (No real worry as long as they don't fall out)
quit copper fouling too bad around 50 rds.
Now on about 120 rds.
torqued accustock per the savage directions rings and rail tight.(Barrel free floating? - with like two thicknesses of bond paper)

Shoots .3" at 100
3.5" at 250yds
Meaning no offense, but first thing I look for with those kinds of results as shooter input factors.

 

[bozo699]

shooting a buddy's rifle, savage 6.5/284. 140 Berger VLD hunting, nosler brass, 250 primers, h4831sc.

Shoots .3" at 100, shooting 3.5" at 250yds. Did this with wlr primers so switched to 250's. Now same thing. Haven't checked the twist, supposedly it's an 8. Didn't get to chronograph yet, usually do it after I find a load. Seating depth at 250 yard groups were touching lands, 8 thou jam, 8 thou jump. Powder charge that shoots .3" at 100 yds is 52.5 shows very little pressure. Has crazy long throat, coal is 3.115, which puts the boat tail/bearing surface roughly half way in the neck. Has 3 thou neck tension, no crimp, bullets stay put in magazine when fired. Seems to be broken in for factory bbl, quit copper fouling too bad around 50 rds. Now on about 120 rds.

I torqued accustock per the savage directions rings and rail tight.

Seriously considering wrapping this p.o.s. Around a tree!!!!!!

What am I overlooking?
Thanks in advance.

J.D,
First of all I hope your joking about wrapping a buddy that was good enough to loan you his rifle around a tree?.....A 6.5 .284 isnt too picky to load for.
Now not picking on you but .3 at 100 and 3.5 at 250 makes my first thoughts that you shot one group that went .3 Now if I shot 10 5 shot groups and they averaged .3 then I would call it a true .3 gun.....did you do that or something similar?....also I would ask myself can I shoot 250 yards accurately?...again not being mean, what is the trigger pull? do you have a good rest system and are you consistently shooting the rifle the same from the rest every time? I myself would try backing off the powder about a grain worth and mine shoots much better with the load your using with 210M not magnum primers. Savage triggers are the worst,..does it have a aftermarket or that accutrigger,......well I wont even go there and that accustock is a joke! checking the twist takes about a minute so I wouldnt guess I would find out so I would know if it will stabilize those long burgers.
One last thing.......again not a dig but it is a Savage factory rifle designed for hunting it isn't even close to a bench rest rifle,...what are you trying to achieve with this rifle? What is it's intended use when you finish load development?
Wayne.

 

[Wingnut00]

Hey jack. I did some reading in my spare time in between dragline calls and I read quite a few reviews of people runnin the say dam gun and findin a sweet spot around 2780 with ur combo and another one around 2860 but like we talked earlier u ain't chronied it yet cause of no consistent group. So without a velocity to help troubleshoot I guess I would try backin off somewhere around grain and a half and also with dropping powder charge try seating a group of three at 10 thou off the lands and a group of three 20 thou off. I know ur gettin pissed with that thing but don't get mad yet. Move back closer and then I could try it to. Later cuz!

 

[Wingnut00]

Hey I forgot to add that I found a load on reloaders nest a guy claims at 51grs of 4831 he states is runnin at 3070fps. I guess I don't believe it but what do I know. His load was .035 longer than urs but claims 24" barrel. U and me both know that all guns r different but just sayin if his data is true u might be over-poopin ur bullets. Not sure. Better chrony and go from there. Might give some very valuable info to what goin on.

 

[284winner]

Sounds like your getting sound advice. Mine shoots .291 w/52.0 4831sc, Lapua brass, 210 primers. My coal 3.075 just on the lands. I'm getting 3075 but have a 30" broughton 5R barrel. Lighten your powder charger to 51.0 and go up .2 until you hit 52.0. Stay on the lands but not jammed in. Also back off tension to .002 on the neck. Here's the other part, shoot your groups at 200 yds. 100 yards seems to be good. Frustration is natural but it will go away once you hit that sweet spot...and you will. If none of the help you received works, I would look a little deeper into shooter error. That would actually be the easiest fix if it was the case.

 

[Brians356]

Shoots .3" at 100
3.5" at 250yds
Meaning no offense, but first thing I look for with those kinds of results as shooter input factors.

I agree.

A few random thoughts that spring to mind:

No details of group shape (vertical vs horizontal) or wind conditions, wind doping, mirage, etc., but the rifles' innate dispersion is a smaller portion of the total dispersion at longer distances.

The shooter must see and steadily aim at target icons at 250 yards - for my aging eyes, no easy task, especially through mirage.

The scope's parallax nullification must be adjusted for the distance change, something surprisingly few shooters handle properly. Parallax error is much more critical at longer distances.

Distant targets may require shifting the bench setup significantly, e.g. if the distant targets are more elevated (uphill). The rifle may not shoot as well off the different setup.

Shooting at more distant targets creates more stress in most shooters. Muscles tense up, heart rate increases, breath control becomes more difficult, technique becomes more erratic.
-

 

[hogpatrol]

Agree with previous posts. Bag/rest, parallax, use NON-magnum primers, .3 groups of 3?, 5?, 10?

 

[Shaggy357]

A flier can make a nice group into crap. One day I had three shots in one hole at 100 and bragged to my brother I was going to do it with 5. The 4th shot was over an inch out. Never shot the 5th.

My buddy and I used to spot for each other in Seattle. In the misty rain you could watch the trail behind the bullet as it went into the target. The bullet path was not always the same. There was a variation or "yaw" that was predictable at certain distances. It was not uncommon to see a small group at 100, open up a little at 150, and close down again at 200. This was really obvious with .22LR and slow/fat 357 or 41 mag bullets.

Whether consistency in taking the shot, in the bullet flight ("yaw"), or in the weather, the smaller the deviation in the variables will control the group size. If you know the load and gun are capable, you have to look into the other variables.

Steve

 

[FeMan]

It has already been said but it is worth repeating; Have you checked the parallax in the scope and made sure you adjusted it out? If not, that will cause similar issues.