ATF Stockpiling gun owners information

[Joe Salt]

But OBAMA made me that way. Sorry but I feel that way now! Like TRUMP says worst President ever.

Joe Salt

 

[NorCalMikie]

I think we might actually agree on the idea that change is needed, but we might disagree on the "how" of it.
It's not about the "who" but about the rule of law. The question I think we need to ask ourselves is where did it all go wrong?
I simply do not believe our founding fathers ever intended that there should be a "professional" political class that stays in power for decades in some capacity and come out of elected or appointed office if they do, as some ultra wealthy god paid for by the masses. I believe public elected office was intended as an opportunity for certain individuals to "serve" for a short time and then go back home and live under the rules they created themselves. If we had 1) Term limits that no individual could serve in any elected office say more than 10 years (and frankly that's too long) and then they would be given a reasonable one time severance pay equal only to their public service pay for one year and then they would be back on their own and not allowed in public elected office thereafter. 2) End private political contributions to all candidates from all corporations and businesses but allow individual contributions of no more than $100 per person.
This nation spends countless trillions on the war machine and I recently read that some 8 trillion dollars can't be accounted for from the Defense Dept. If we can do that, we can certainly afford to publicly finance elections and get the bribes, cronyism, and corruption out of the election process.
Maybe just dreaming because that would be a long stretch from where we are today.
One other item...elected politicians would no longer be able to vote themselves raises or benefits. If someone is there to get rich, they need to go back home.

Also add "Line Item Veto" to that list.

 

[JRS]

JRS And tell me the name of one NRA. Member the has done JIHAD, or killing people for no good reason?

Joe Salt

I'm not aware of one that has. Are you certain one hasn't? BTW, Joe, how does one do Jihad? The actual definition of the word is quite different from the definition the media in the U.S placed on it. Do you happen to know every NRA member, Joe? Other than names, the NRA has no clue who their members are, nor are they concerned.

 

[dragman]

I might be wrong and don't have time to look it up, but I believe the Oklahoma city bombers were members, also a few of the planned parenthood bombers have claimed to be.
There is a crazy few in every bunch that doesn't make the whole of the group wrong or bad.

 

[JRS]

I might be wrong and don't have time to look it up, but I believe the Oklahoma city bombers were members, also a few of the planned parenthood bombers have claimed to be.
There is a crazy few in every bunch that doesn't make the whole of the group wrong or bad.

This might help: "NRA spokesman said Timothy McVeigh was a member of the National Rifle Association, but McVeigh does not appear to have corresponded with the organization apart from his membership".

 

[Joe Salt]

Wow you two have definitely drank the Cool-AID, the whole pitcher. If that were true they would be dragging them through the streets like the Arab's did to our guys.

Joe Salt

 

[JRS]

Wow you two have definitely drank the Cool-AID, the whole pitcher. If that were true they would be dragging them through the streets like the Arab's did to our guys.

Joe Salt

In America, Joe, we drag them into court. Not through the streets. The NRA worked with the FBI to provide as much information about McVeigh as possible, without providing his private information.

Edit: McVeigh was put to death 6 years after the bombing, Joe.

 

[Joe Salt]

JRS I know all that, but when all the Muslims get there plan in place, they will be dragging people though the streets. Trump will not let that happen. Half or government is Muslim now thanks to your President. What a bunch bleeding hearts you guys are. After we get our a$$'s handed to us you will all be wondering what happen, we were all nice people. Nice guys always finish last.
Love You guys BUT! You just don't get it, but you will when its to late.

Joe Salt

 

[JRS]

JRS I know all that, but when all the Muslims get there plan in place, they will be dragging people though the streets. Trump will not let that happen. Half or government is Muslim now thanks to your President. What a bunch bleeding hearts you guys are. After we get our a$$'s handed to us you will all be wondering what happen, we were all nice people. Nice guys always finish last.
Love You guys BUT! You just don't get it, but you will when its to late.

Joe Salt

"all the Muslims"? That's a pretty sad statement, Joe. There is more than 2 billion Muslims on earth, Joe. Almost one third of the population on earth. The number of "radical" Muslims is quite small. We have our own homegrown radicals. Do you realize how large the AB and KKK population is in our country? And the enormous number of people they have murdered?

 

[dragman]

JRS I know all that, but when all the Muslims get there plan in place, they will be dragging people though the streets. Trump will not let that happen. Half or government is Muslim now thanks to your President. What a bunch bleeding hearts you guys are. After we get our a$$'s handed to us you will all be wondering what happen, we were all nice people. Nice guys always finish last.
Love You guys BUT! You just don't get it, but you will when its to late.

Joe Salt

The term "white terrorism" is used by scholars in relation to terrorism committed against African Americans during the Reconstruction era.[23] "White terrorism, systematic, organised and relentless, targeted the dream with deadly accuracy" is the way one researcher described it.[24]

Pre-2001[edit]
According to political scientist George Michael at The University of Virginia's College at Wise, "right-wing terrorism and violence has a long history in America".[25]:114 Right-wing extremist incidents of violence began to outnumber Marxist-related incidents in the United States during the 1980s and 1990s.[26]:29 Michael observes the waning of left-wing terrorism as right-wing terrorism and violence takes its place, with a noticeable "convergence" of the goals of militant Islam with those of the extreme right. Islamic studies scholar Youssef M. Choueiri of the University of Manchester classifies Islamic fundamentalist movements involving revivalism, reformism, and radicalism within the scope of "right-wing politics".[27]:9

During the 1980s, more than 75 right-wing extremists were prosecuted in the United States for acts of terrorism, although they carried out only six attacks during the decade.[28] In 1983, Gordon Kahl, a Posse Comitatus activist, killed two federal marshals and was later killed by police. Also that year, the white nationalist revolutionary group The Order (also known as the Brüder Schweigen or Silent Brotherhood) robbed several banks and armored cars, as well as a sex shop;[29] bombed a theater and a synagogue; and murdered radio talk show host Alan Berg.[30][31]

The April 19, 1995 attack on the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma, by the right-wing extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, which killed 168 people.[32] McVeigh stated it was retaliation for the government's actions in Ruby Ridge and Waco.[33] McVeigh attended Michigan militia group gun shows.[34][35]

Eric Rudolph executed a series of terrorist attacks between 1996 and 1998. He carried out 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing — which claimed two lives and injured 111 — with the aim of to cancelling the games, claiming they promoted global socialism.[36] Rudolph confessed to bombing an abortion clinic in Sandy Springs, an Atlanta suburb, on January 16, 1997; the Otherside Lounge, an Atlanta lesbian bar, on February 21, 1997, injuring five; and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing Birmingham police officer and part-time clinic security guard Robert Sanderson, and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons.

Post-2001[edit]
In June 2015, data collected by the New America Foundation showed that since the September 11 attacks (9/11), attacks in the United States committed by far-right extremists had claimed more lives (48) than attacks committed by jihadists (26).[37] Subsequently, however, a number of jihadist terrorist attacks (the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting and the 2015 San Bernardino shooting) resulted in the number of deaths caused by jihadists to outpace the number of deaths caused by far-right extremists; as of July 2016, the New America Foundation placed the number killed in jihadist attacks in the U.S. (since 9/11) at 94, and the number killed in far-right attacks in the U.S. as 48.[38]

New America's tally of shows 18 instances of right-wing terrorist attacks causing fatalities since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. These were the 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed), the 2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed), the 2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (4 killed), the 2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting in Kansas (3 killed), a shooting at the Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania police barracks, of which Eric Frein is accused (1 killed), a 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists (4 killed), a 2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed), the 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed), the 2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed); a murder in 2010 in Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed), a 2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed), the 2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed); the 2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed), the 2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed), the 2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed), the 2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed), the 2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed), and the 2004 bank robbery in Tulsa, Oklahoma.[38]

Some scholars, such as Anthea Butler of the University of Pennsylvania, contend that the word "terrorism" is disproportionately applied by the media in reference to crimes committed by Muslims (and that "thug" is used similarly for African Americans).[39] Juan Cole of the University of Michigan argues that the word "terrorism" is avoided by the media in cases involving crimes committed by white Americans identified with far right.[40]

My only point to posting this is to point out that we all should band together against the small amount of CRAZY people that exist in every race, culture and religion. It shouldn't only scare us when it's someone else who does it.

 

[fredo]

What's so screwed up & evil about democrap/libtardist agendas is this:

They specifically target hearts & minds of well intentioned, good & kind citizens, with appeals that tug at their very heart strings. Once that spin is put on an agenda, it is very likely that an emotional response will result...

IE, "the poor children" in Ct school shooting to further gun control legislation...
The "poor imigrants" who specifically seek to exploit our Country's gracious & liberal aid granted them...
The "poor muslims" who are being scowled at, thanks to a sect of radicals that hide behind their 'religion'...
The "poor screech owls" that (DON'T) need mature forest to thrive...
The "poor inner city folk" who need help, despite not attempting to help themselves...
The "poor female", who needs to reserve the right to murder the un-born child within...
The "poor (non-indigenous) wolves" re-introduced that need protection, while decimating other wildlife & livestock...
The "poor afro-americans" who's ancestors came to this country in slave ships...
The "poor LGBTTRANS"-whatevers, who need to be accepted & accommodated, at the expense of common decency and ignorance of Natural Law...

etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum...

We are all human beings.
Most every one of us with a kind heart & desire to do GOOD.
By creating a "victim" for us to pity or feel badly for, guilt & shame enter the equation, with the specific intent of clouding otherwise rational judgment. What is "just and what is right" then morphs into a compensation for that shame & guilt.

Those strong emotions serve to short circuit logical, deductive reasoning-by default-labeling anyone who'd speak against them as being a bigot, racist, white supremacist, or otherwise 'in-human' in some capacity...

Exploiting in inherent "goodness" that most all of us possess, and using it to make enemies of our fellow man.
Keep the sheep fighting themselves, while the gubment shears us all. Anymore, that's all we are...a revenue source to keep who's in power, in power...

 

[swd]

What's so screwed up & evil about democrap/libtardist agendas is this:

They specifically target hearts & minds of well intentioned, good & kind citizens, with appeals that tug at their very heart strings. Once that spin is put on an agenda, it is very likely that an emotional response will result...

IE, "the poor children" in Ct school shooting to further gun control legislation...
The "poor imigrants" who specifically seek to exploit our Country's gracious & liberal aid granted them...
The "poor muslims" who are being scowled at, thanks to a sect of radicals that hide behind their 'religion'...
The "poor screech owls" that (DON'T) need mature forest to thrive...
The "poor inner city folk" who need help, despite not attempting to help themselves...
The "poor female", who needs to reserve the right to murder the un-born child within...
The "poor (non-indigenous) wolves" re-introduced that need protection, while decimating other wildlife & livestock...
The "poor afro-americans" who's ancestors came to this country in slave ships...
The "poor LGBTTRANS"-whatevers, who need to be accepted & accommodated, at the expense of common decency and ignorance of Natural Law...

etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum...

We are all human beings.
Most every one of us with a kind heart & desire to do GOOD.
By creating a "victim" for us to pity or feel badly for, guilt & shame enter the equation, with the specific intent of clouding otherwise rational judgment. What is "just and what is right" then morphs into a compensation for that shame & guilt.

Those strong emotions serve to short circuit logical, deductive reasoning-by default-labeling anyone who'd speak against them as being a bigot, racist, white supremacist, or otherwise 'in-human' in some capacity...

Exploiting in inherent "goodness" that most all of us possess, and using it to make enemies of our fellow man.
Keep the sheep fighting themselves, while the gubment shears us all. Anymore, that's all we are...a revenue source to keep who's in power, in power...

I wish I could push the "like" button on this about a 100 times over. Fred nailed it!

 

[dragman]

Fredo, you forgot

The "poor white man" spends all the time complaining that someone else is trying to take away what he has.

If your going to make a list of everyone else lets be real and make it about everyone!

 

[swd]

Fredo, you forgot

The "poor white man" spends all the time complaining that someone else is trying to take away what he has.

If your going to make a list of everyone else lets be real and make it about everyone!

No, that's the pissed off conservative trying to hang on to what he's actually worked for, while the libs try to steal it from him to give to someone else to buy their vote.

 

[fredo]

Fredo, you forgot

The "poor white man" spends all the time complaining that someone else is trying to take away what he has.

If your going to make a list of everyone else lets be real and make it about everyone!

If you mean "take away", as in the context of taxing the livin' chit out of us, in order to feed the gubment beast that seeks to knock all of humanity to a common minimum level....then I agree with you.

 

[dragman]

No, that's the pissed off conservative trying to hang on to what he's actually worked for, while the libs try to steal it from him to give to someone else to buy their vote.

So the only group of people that can complain without being marginalized or trivialized is white men?

 

[fredo]

LOL, typing as you were, Shawn!

 

[dragman]

If you mean "take away", as in the context of taxing the livin' chit out of us, in order to feed the gubment beast that seeks to knock all of humanity to a common minimum level....then I agree with you.

We agree, I do think that in a lot of cases it ends up as venom spoken at the (insert your group) that they are taking it away. the immigrants are taking it all, the poor (all poor not just minorities) keep wanting hand outs.
Lets not be pissed off at the groups stated above and be pissed at the government who is making the decisions. I believe they have a grand time keeping us pissed at eachother so no one cuts off there hand for stealing all the cookies out of the jar!

 

[fredo]

So the only group of people that can complain without being marginalized or trivialized is white men?

You're really reaching to draw that conclusion.
We're ALL American citizens.
We're ALL entitled to the same freedoms & liberties.

That said, please explain how taking from one to benefit another is somehow congruous with the above?

Is it OK to limit one man's freedom in order to console another man?
Is it OK to take one man's hard earned paycheck to subsidize another man's life?
It it OK to take one man's religious beliefs over another man's?
Is it OK to charge one man for medical care, while not charging another?
It is OK to take one man's right to protect his Family, his Home and his Life, to allow another man an illusion of "safety"?

Could go on & on about this, the point has been made.
That is what's happening, is that not something to be critical of???

BTW, the group of people you seem to refer to with such disdain, is the backbone of our Country. IE, the shrinking middle class who bears the burden of taxation for those who don't, can't, or won't. We are white, black, orange, green, yellow and purple. And we all bleed RED...

Quit making it a race thing, we're all in this mess together. High time we quit the in-fighting and start holding those who truly yanks our chains, accountable...

P.S.
Typing again at the same time, I see.
Glad to see we are in agreement.
The sooner ALL OF US realize that we are ALL being hosed, the better!

 

[swd]

We agree, I do think that in a lot of cases it ends up as venom spoken at the (insert your group) that they are taking it away. the immigrants are taking it all, the poor (all poor not just minorities) keep wanting hand outs.
Lets not be pissed off at the groups stated above and be pissed at the government who is making the decisions. I believe they have a grand time keeping us pissed at eachother so no one cuts off there hand for stealing all the cookies out of the jar!

This I completely agree with!

I also agree with JRS that we need a strong 3rd party or even 4 parties to truly represent the people. I'm just not willing in this election to go that way and give hillary any better odds.