July 16 F-Class Match at Talladega

[Berger.Fan222]

https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&match=14550

Details at above link.

I don't think I'll be able to compete in this one, but since there has been so much discussion of electronic scoring, I thought some folks here might want to make it out and see how it works.

If you have not been out to the Talladega CMP yet, you owe it to yourself to shoot at this facility - it is the absolute finest I have seen. And your match entry fee ($35) allows you to shoot the rest of the day.

 

[lal357]

planning on being there just not sure what class i'm going to shoot yet

 

[SDDasher]

I plan on making the trip up from NW FL to shoot F Open with the Dasher.

 

[pressedRat]

i've shot 600 yd there once with a custom 6 dasher/march scope. target was a 3 foot circle, wind was blowing off and on. no center x, circle or anything else. my scope is mil-mil so i used the hash marks to orient the scope framing the top, bottom, left, right sides of the circle. results were.. hit or miss. as i am used to holding off by aiming at the various rings to either side of the 3 inch x ring.

so for this match, will there be standard targets somehow attached to the electronic system or will you have to guesstimate where the 3 inch x ring is within the 3 foot circle?

 

[Berger.Fan222]

i've shot 600 yd there once with a custom 6 dasher/march scope. target was a 3 foot circle, wind was blowing off and on. no center x, circle or anything else. my scope is mil-mil so i used the hash marks to orient the scope framing the top, bottom, left, right sides of the circle. results were.. hit or miss. as i am used to holding off by aiming at the various rings to either side of the 3 inch x ring.

so for this match, will there be standard targets somehow attached to the electronic system or will you have to guesstimate where the 3 inch x ring is within the 3 foot circle?

I am not associated with the match organizers, so you should contact them for a definitive answer.

At the matches I've attended, there were not paper targets attached to the electronic system, as this greatly complicates and slows the organization of the match.

It is my view that the absence of rings is more than outweighed by the advantages of the facility: no pit duty, no delays placing or replacing paper targets, covered firing line, three matches complete before noon, immediate and accurate electronic scoring.

Even though it was windy, several friends have all logged personal best scores at this facility. Given that the wind forecast for this Sat AM is < 5 mph, I expect some great scores to be posted.

 

[JAlfred]

No plans to modify targets, was talking to someone about it Sunday. Nice facility. Hold off is an issue, but not fatal.

 

[gaboon]

They need to get off their spat with the NRA. Put up paper targets on the e targets. The facility is great but themselves is holding it back.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

They need to get off their spat with the NRA. Put up paper targets on the e targets. The facility is great but themselves is holding it back.

I am hoping the NRA will come around and stop requiring the paper targets.

Paper targets may reasonably be needed for some higher levels of competition, but I don't see the need for monthly matches. They just add to the expense and time required to conduct the match.

One fact to consider is that if there are only 30 shooters, they only occupy 15 lanes in a 50 lane facility. How much sense does it make to shut down all 50 lanes in the facility for 20-30 minutes to go replace those paper targets several times each time there is a monthly event?

I can see requiring the paper targets for registered matches where national records could be recorded and attendance levels justify the inconvenience to all the lanes. But the time, inconvenience, and expense does not make sense to me for a monthly match.

Another way to put it is would you rather the match be over by noon and cost $35 or last until 2 PM and cost $50?

There are plenty of matches around that shoot paper targets if that is what you prefer.

 

[gaboon]

Paper targets I was referring to have scoring rings. Just have to center them up on the xy axis. You don't have to do all lanes. I have shot there a few times and after the match was over daily shooters came out to use the range. Most were using scopes shooting their ar15 and few hunting rifles. Majority of shooters now shoot their scoped guns. Aiming point for daily use would be fine for most. Competition shooters need the whole target for scope guns. Palma and service rifles is what the range was designed for. Palma and service rifle shooters are a dying breed. They need to open their eyes and crater to all kinds of competition.

 

[lal357]

unfortunately i dont believe they will ever get nra certified since its a cmp range and thats all they seem to think about i was one of the ones that tried to get it started and the thinking was more or less that the nra has to start thinking their way. with that thinking it will always be just a club match place. their potential is so great they could really bring some good matches their but they have to think out of the cmp box. for me i'll shoot them if i cant find any other matches in my traveling area if i do they will always be my last pick

 

[JFM33]

I am looking forward to shooting there this weekend.I would also like to say if I was shooting sling & irons a black blob is all I need because I would click the sights.When I shoot F-class it really helps to have visable target rings because I will shade/hold off for the wind.I have shot e-targets befor and I even missed the shot marker/disk .Too bad someone doesn't make an overlay that would allow them to spray paint the rings in.That would save the expense of paper target and give the scoped shooters what were use too.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I prefer having the rings as an aid to aiming also, but everyone shooting electronic targets without the rings is in the same boat. But some friends and I have the experience of applying Kentucky windage without rings since most years we shoot more rounds in hunting and precision rifle than F-Class.

I'm happy enough to have a range with covered firing points and no pit duty to shoot at, especially in the hotter summer months when pit duty can be pretty sweaty in the heat and humidity. The concrete pad is nice to shoot off of also. I'm not sure which feature is contributing to so many personal best scores among my friends, but no one is complaining.

There are plenty of NRA approved matches around when we want scores to count toward classifications or use the rings as an aid to aiming. It will be interesting to see how the rules evolve with the electronic targets. I can see why the NRA is not yet approving the current targets, but I can see it going either way in the future. Does it make sense to create a permanent target face with the F-Class rings when the targets may also be used for other disciplines? Does it make sense to require the whole 50 lane range to have a 20-30 minute cease fire to hang and change paper targets on 15 lanes?

One big advantage of electronic targets is that they allow matches to happen on a small part of a big facility while individual shooters or even different matches occur simultaneously at other firing points. We also appreciate that we can shoot all afternoon the day of the match with no additional fee. Where else does your entry fee entitle you to sight in hunting rifles, test new loads, and/or just get in more practice for the rest of the day?

It is unrealistic to think a range with 50 firing points is going to inconvenience them all for a match using 15 of them or make permanent alterations to 30+ target faces for a match that occurs one morning a month or so.

 

[brshtr]

I, too, would like to have scoring rings to help with my aiming point. However, I shot the F-Class match at Talladega last month (and will be there on Saturday) and found that the absence of scoring rings was not nearly the hindrance I had anticipated. I was shooting with a reticle that's a simple crosshair with a center dot, not even a scope with mil dots or hash marks. And, further to what Berger.Fan222 mentioned, I shot a personal best score there, even without the scoring rings.

They give you a five-minute sight-in before each match, and since targets don't have to be pulled you can shoot a lot of sighters and get centered up in your preferred condition. it's a great facility and I feel fortunate to live within driving distance.

Dave Rabin

 

[dannyjbiggs]

I am hoping the NRA will come around and stop requiring the paper targets.

Paper targets may reasonably be needed for some higher levels of competition, but I don't see the need for monthly matches. They just add to the expense and time required to conduct the match.

One fact to consider is that if there are only 30 shooters, they only occupy 15 lanes in a 50 lane facility. How much sense does it make to shut down all 50 lanes in the facility for 20-30 minutes to go replace those paper targets several times each time there is a monthly event?

I can see requiring the paper targets for registered matches where national records could be recorded and attendance levels justify the inconvenience to all the lanes. But the time, inconvenience, and expense does not make sense to me for a monthly match.

Another way to put it is would you rather the match be over by noon and cost $35 or last until 2 PM and cost $50?

There are plenty of matches around that shoot paper targets if that is what you prefer.

It's rather doubtful that the NRA will be "coming around" to the CMP's version of F-Class electronic targets! Particularly in view of the NRA HIGH POWER RIFLE rule changes effective 2016. Rule 10.17.1 Electronic Target Requirements, item (b) states: All target units must provide a black aiming area corresponding in size to the black areas of the respective competition targets (Section 4 Targets) and a non-reflective, contrasting white or off-white area surrounding the aiming area. Targets used for F-Class competition must be of the same size and dimensions as regular paper targets and must display and be calibrated for conventional scoring rings visible to the competitor through the rifle scope, including the "X" inside the X-ring, or the "V" inside the "V-ring" on international targets.

Soooooooooo, "practice", possibly!??..."competition", no.

Dan

 

[Berger.Fan222]

It's rather doubtful that the NRA will be "coming around" to the CMP's version of F-Class electronic targets! Particularly in view of the NRA HIGH POWER RIFLE rule changes effective 2016. Rule 10.17.1 Electronic Target Requirements, item (b) states: All target units must provide a black aiming area corresponding in size to the black areas of the respective competition targets (Section 4 Targets) and a non-reflective, contrasting white or off-white area surrounding the aiming area. Targets used for F-Class competition must be of the same size and dimensions as regular paper targets and must display and be calibrated for conventional scoring rings visible to the competitor through the rifle scope, including the "X" inside the X-ring, or the "V" inside the "V-ring" on international targets.

Soooooooooo, "practice", possibly!??..."competition", no.

Dan

There is little doubt that the NRA has not yet come around in 2016, but the High Power rules have changed a lot in the past 15 years, and there is a lot of room for additional changes in the next 5-15 years also. I don't think the 2016 rules are written in stone for the future, they are just a snapshot in time right now.

NRA rule changes often come about in response to what sanctioning bodies in other countries are doing, declines in their market share in the US, and opportunities to grow the sport. There are plenty of events that are sanctioned by clubs and other organizations that are legitimate competitions even if they operate outside of NRA sanctioning. I don't think anyone considers the Sierra Cup just "practice."

The bottom line is that the NRA does not own a trademark on "F-Class" or otherwise have the market cornered. Lots of clubs host F-Class competitions throughout the year that are not sanctioned by the NRA. Ultimately, the free market will determine the success of these competitions, and competitions hosted at Talladega CMP have many advantages, even of NRA approval is not yet one of them.

 

[Mitchk]

Does anyone know what time the match starts? I can't find it in the site. I have an email in. Thanks

 

[SDDasher]

Does anyone know what time the match starts? I can't find it in the site. I have an email in. Thanks

Says registration starts at 9:00am. I believe firing begins at 10:00 am

 

[SDDasher]

It's rather doubtful that the NRA will be "coming around" to the CMP's version of F-Class electronic targets! Particularly in view of the NRA HIGH POWER RIFLE rule changes effective 2016. Rule 10.17.1 Electronic Target Requirements, item (b) states: All target units must provide a black aiming area corresponding in size to the black areas of the respective competition targets (Section 4 Targets) and a non-reflective, contrasting white or off-white area surrounding the aiming area. Targets used for F-Class competition must be of the same size and dimensions as regular paper targets and must display and be calibrated for conventional scoring rings visible to the competitor through the rifle scope, including the "X" inside the X-ring, or the "V" inside the "V-ring" on international targets.

Soooooooooo, "practice", possibly!??..."competition", no.

Dan

Dan,
A lot of my shooting " is" competition against my best scores. I like others look forward to trying something different from the traditional match which is rapidly becoming an "x" count contest.(I'm one of those in favor of reducing the scoring rings size for more difficulty)
As long as everyone has to shoot the same target I would say the playing field is level for everyone.
As to who approves of what target the shooting sports would be better served if more attention were placed upon getting new shooters into the sport in my opinion.
Any day at the range beats a day at work regardless what target I am shooting. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning.

Wes Cummings

 

[Berger.Fan222]

As to who approves of what target the shooting sports would be better served if more attention were placed upon getting new shooters into the sport in my opinion.

Any day at the range beats a day at work regardless what target I am shooting. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning.

I think Wes articulated my thoughts very well. The future of the sport lies in increased participation, not in catering to the preferences of the High Masters.

Guys in their 20s and 30s might not mind pit duty and porta potties, but teens, women, and older gentlemen often prefer clean, comfortable bathrooms, an air conditioned club house, and spending more time shooting than pulling targets. Being on our way at noon or spending the afternoon at the range testing new loads, sighting in other rifles, or just practicing will also be a big draw of the Talladega CMP.

 

[Hoser]

I shoot smallbore at the Olympic Training Center on the electronic targets. After every shot the rubber backer advances a few mm or so.

While most everyone there shoots irons, myself and a few others shoot with a scope. Holding center of mass even I can manage a few 600s on an international target.

Scoring rings are not a deal breaker.