Turn Your FX-120i into a Prometheus

[Twoboxer]

Is it possible to set Adams machine up to drop the EXACT charge weight to the kernal?

Yes I wish the powder charge to be exact,

So are the specs plus one kernal. Or plus or minus one kernal?
I weigh now with a charge master and carpet just under and place kernal sin by hand between the thumb and forefinger

Even if the settings have to be slowed a bit I am looking for exact weight and yes the windows are closed,blinds are pulled,a towel over the bottom of the door, load only in below 72 farieheit and so on

Jeff

It's not possible to hit right on every time since, among other issues, when +0.02gr is needed the next kernel might weigh 0.04gr.

With most powders hitting Target or Target +0.02gr proves pretty easy. (N570 might be a tougher one - I'll let you know.) If the latter, you can stick your dipper in and remove some and let the trickler go again. Rarely have I had to pull out a large kernel and search for a small kernel to add manually. And the Trickler does it faster than I can, plus it's a hell of a lot less tiresome.

 

[sparky123321]

It’s not possible for any trickler automatic or manual to drop the EXACT charge 100% of the time.

The reason being is because if two kernals sticks together, or two separate kernels end up arriving at the edge of the trickler at the same time, they are both going to go over the edge. It’s really the odds thing which is if enough kernals are processed, this will happen sometime – its really that simple. Do a test running a trickler manually and you will see this happen.

In the end, the way to deal with this is to put the dipper in, scoop out a small handful of kernals, drop them back on the trickler and it will automatically try again.

Very good point and those of us that have used any type of powder trickler already know this. The only exception to the rule that I've found is the Omega Dandy 2-Speed trickler. Once setup properly I can consistently drop no more than one stick of powder at a time. That's why I'm going to "stick" with my current process which is to use the relatively inexpensive Lyman Gen 6 to automatically drop my rough charge(-0.5 grain) and then use the Omega to tickle the last few sticks of powder to reach the exact charge. While I trickle the last few tenths of a grain the Gen 6 is already dropping my rough charge on auto feed. Prior to using the Omega it wasn't uncommon to have to pick out a stick or two of powder due to a double or triple drop from my standard barrel type trickler. Nothing bothers me more or seems to waste more time than picking out sticks of powder from the pan on an analytical scale.

 

[adamjmac]

Is it possible to set Adams machine up to drop the EXACT charge weight to the kernal?

Yes I wish the powder charge to be exact,

So are the specs plus one kernal. Or plus or minus one kernal?
I weigh now with a charge master and carpet just under and place kernal sin by hand between the thumb and forefinger

Even if the settings have to be slowed a bit I am looking for exact weight and yes the windows are closed,blinds are pulled,a towel over the bottom of the door, load only in below 72 farieheit and so on

Jeff

The trickler will stop at one scale division UNDER the target. That means 0.02 grains or 0.001 grams. If you are looking for the most precision operate in grams because 1 mg is less than 0.02 grains and the scale works internally in grams so is more accurate.

The rationale for stopping under is that you will land either 1 under, right on, or 1 over about 90% of the time. Since it can't run backwards.

If you want better than +/- 0.001 g, read earlier in the thread where I explain the insignificance of this. If you still want to land right on, I recommend using a slightly slower slider setting so it more rarely goes over, and keep a few single kernels ready that you can drop in quickly to finish up.

But the recommended mode of operation is to find the sweet spot slider setting that gets you +/- 0.001 g 90+ % of the time.

 

[jlow]

Very good point and those of us that have used any type of powder trickler already know this. The only exception to the rule that I've found is the Omega Dandy 2-Speed trickler. Once setup properly I can consistently drop no more than one stick of powder at a time. That's why I'm going to "stick" with my current process which is to use the relatively inexpensive Lyman Gen 6 to automatically drop my rough charge(-0.5 grain) and then use the Omega to tickle the last few sticks of powder to reach the exact charge. While I trickle the last few tenths of a grain the Gen 6 is already dropping my rough charge on auto feed. Prior to using the Omega it wasn't uncommon to have to pick out a stick or two of powder due to a double or triple drop from my standard barrel type trickler. Nothing bothers me more or seems to waste more time than picking out sticks of powder from the pan on an analytical scale.

It's not really a problem since I don't worry about 1 to two kernels being off.

If one really worries about this kind of accuracy, one can always just reach forward and give the trickler a slight twist to get one more kernel to drop (if you are 0.02 grain short). or just take the pan off and take off one kernel with a pair of tweezers (if it is one over).

Anything more accurate will require a razor blade!

 

[Jefferson]

It’s not possible for any trickler automatic or manual to drop the EXACT charge 100% of the time.

The reason being is because if two kernals sticks together, or two separate kernels end up arriving at the edge of the trickler at the same time, they are both going to go over the edge

Excellent, a simple solution.

The rationale for stopping under is that you will land either 1 under, right on, or 1 over about 90% of the time. Since it can't run backwards.

If you want better than +/- 0.001 g, read earlier in the thread where I explain the insignificance of this. If you still want to land right on, I recommend using a slightly slower slider setting so it more rarely goes over, and keep a few single kernels ready that you can drop in quickly to finish up.

But the recommended mode of operation is to find the sweet spot slider setting that gets you +/- 0.001 g 90+ % of the time.

Sounds good to me,
I guess that I can just take some out and let it run again, or just take one kernel out from time to time, or just keep a few single kernels to drop in,
I thank you for your very reasoned response rather than a response to say I am to picky (or anal)
The reason for being exact is on a 308 over 8 shots at a practice 2 days ago I had a variation of 5 feet per second over 8 shots with a 308 185 Juggs at 2747 to 2752 and a waterline that was pretty good in the v bull ring most of the 94 shots for the practice,might have to put away that barrel.

Accuracy is important for me and that is why I asked,

Some of us wish perfection for when we step up to the line the only list we need to worry about is how to place the crosshairs and how to hold the fun and manage the shot, we need not worry why the shot went awry, if we miss it is us, and not the load

Is that not what we are after

Thanks

Jeff

 

[avidflyer]

got up today went down to load and it was dead...set up it a month ago, did a couple test drops worked perfect. dead today...checked the programming seemed to be the same. have to play with it and see wha happened after work...

 

[adamjmac]

got up today went down to load and it was dead...set up it a month ago, did a couple test drops worked perfect. dead today...checked the programming seemed to be the same. have to play with it and see wha happened after work...

Send me an email if you want to troubleshoot with me adamjmac@gmail.com

 

[jlow]

Sounds good to me,
I guess that I can just take some out and let it run again, or just take one kernel out from time to time, or just keep a few single kernels to drop in,
I thank you for your very reasoned response rather than a response to say I am to picky (or anal)
The reason for being exact is on a 308 over 8 shots at a practice 2 days ago I had a variation of 5 feet per second over 8 shots with a 308 185 Juggs at 2747 to 2752 and a waterline that was pretty good in the v bull ring most of the 94 shots for the practice,might have to put away that barrel.

Accuracy is important for me and that is why I asked,

Some of us wish perfection for when we step up to the line the only list we need to worry about is how to place the crosshairs and how to hold the fun and manage the shot, we need not worry why the shot went awry, if we miss it is us, and not the load

Is that not what we are after

Thanks

Jeff

No sweat bud! I am basically a Type A and anal, and I needed to be for my job, and so I know exactly where you are coming from.

I shoot Jugs too and you can actually calculate the effect of 0.02 grains of Varget i.e. around 1 kernel using QuickLoad. For my setup i.e. 24” barrel, with 44.3 grain Varget running at 2,648 fps, this will affect MV by approximately 1 fps. Of course, there are other things that is also going to add to that variation and depending on what type of shooting you are doing, it all adds up and might be important. I shoot mostly tactical and steel targets are much more forgiving!

 

[adamjmac]

1 kernel = 1 fps, this is true.

However... for a load with an SD of 6 fps, raising your powder measurement SD from 0 to 1 kernel does not increase your SD from 6 to 7. It actually increases it to 6.08. The magic of statistics.

 

[jlow]

1 kernel = 1 fps, this is true.

However... for a load with an SD of 6 fps, raising your powder measurement SD from 0 to 1 kernel does not increase your SD from 6 to 7. It actually increases it to 6.08. The magic of statistics.

Now that's anal! Good one Adam!

 

[Dakota_Mike]

got up today went down to load and it was dead...set up it a month ago, did a couple test drops worked perfect. dead today...checked the programming seemed to be the same. have to play with it and see wha happened after work...

Try unplugging the 9pin connector. Myself and another person have seen it do the same and unplugging the connector reset the unit. Just turning the scale off or unplugging the power to the scale did not fix the problem. Has only happened once out of using it about 100 times.

 

[avidflyer]

Send me an email if you want to troubleshoot with me adamjmac@gmail.com

powered off unplugged nine pin plugged back in and powered on....works fine

 

[jlow]

Try unplugging the 9pin connector. Myself and another person have seen it do the same and unplugging the connector reset the unit. Just turning the scale off or unplugging the power to the scale did not fix the problem. Has only happened once out of using it about 100 times.

Thanks for sharing this little gem. I've not run across this problem yet but have not used the autotrickler quite that much.

 

[jkl]

A good wind reader will whip a 1 kernel trickler. Just saying.
I have loaded about 500 with mine and once you learn it it will hit it 98% of the time and I can adjust that.

John

 

[spclark]

A good wind reader will whip a 1 kernel trickler.

Yeah but a good wind reader WITH a 1 kernel trickler's gonna have the edge on confidence.

(Reminds me I have to ask Bob Steketee how he weighs propellant....)

Adam's suggestion on switching to grams is a good one! I tried it tonight weighing IMR4451 - chunkier than H4350 (if you can believe that's possible) - and it works great!

Scale seems to settle faster, less drift. 1 kernel most often = 0.001g.

 

[adamjmac]

If the trickler electronics get confused, a power cycle will reset it. That can be done by unplugging the DB9 OR unplugging the power cord to the scale. It's just that turning the scale "off" is really just putting it to sleep and it does not remove power from the trickler.

I was advised that parrafin wax is a good option for lubrication. Haven't tried it myself but someone told me it works well and won't stick to the powder.

Adam

 

[Kiba]

Since the occasional application of lube between the trickler tube and trickler body has been mentioned-- can someone measure the OD of the trickler tube where it passes through the trickler body? I don't have my setup from Adam yet or I'd measure it myself.

Reason I ask is there may be a readily available bearing in the appropriate ID for the trickler tube and I'm thinking about boring out the trickler body and installing rubber sealed ball bearings into the main trickler body. This way the trickler tube will have minimal friction and be nearly maintenance free. By using rubber sealed bearings there would be minimal to no chance of contaminating the powder with grease/oil.

Another thought I had was to adapt Adam's motor to the Hornady lock and load trickler since it already has bearings supporting the trickler shaft and a much larger hopper-- but the Hornady trickler is substantially more expensive and I've read that Hornady uses regular shielded bearings that are prone to weeping oil and grease which can contaminate the powder charge.

Thanks!

 

[memilanuk]

A couple questions...

If the auto-trickler is set for 44.2gn, and it stops a bit light... say 44.16-44.18gn, and I just *have* to have it @ 44.20 ... I've seen other people mention having another trickler setup on the other side, etc., but I have to ask: is it going to hurt anything if you reach up and turn the trickler tube by hand a little until a kernel pops out? I started doing this the last session with the unit, and I can't tell that it bothered the unit any...?

I have noticed that the kernels will occasionally clump up and come out in a little bigger bunch than the trickler program was probably anticipating, resulting in an over-shoot (I keep a set of very fine needle-point tweezers handy, just as I did with the Omega 2-spd trickler). With the regular RCBS Chargemaster, it has been fairly common for people to take a chunk of soda straw and put it in the discharge tube, so the kernels have to come out in a line rather than 'climbing' up the threads and clumping and coming out in a bunch. Anyone tried that with one of these auto-tricklers yet? The feed tube extension on the trickler looks pretty similar to me, so it seems like it should work...?

 

[IPSCNUT]

A couple questions...

If the auto-trickler is set for 44.2gn, and it stops a bit light... say 44.16-44.18gn, and I just *have* to have it @ 44.20 ... I've seen other people mention having another trickler setup on the other side, etc., but I have to ask: is it going to hurt anything if you reach up and turn the trickler tube by hand a little until a kernel pops out? I started doing this the last session with the unit, and I can't tell that it bothered the unit any...?

I have noticed that the kernels will occasionally clump up and come out in a little bigger bunch than the trickler program was probably anticipating, resulting in an over-shoot (I keep a set of very fine needle-point tweezers handy, just as I did with the Omega 2-spd trickler). With the regular RCBS Chargemaster, it has been fairly common for people to take a chunk of soda straw and put it in the discharge tube, so the kernels have to come out in a line rather than 'climbing' up the threads and clumping and coming out in a bunch. Anyone tried that with one of these auto-tricklers yet? The feed tube extension on the trickler looks pretty similar to me, so it seems like it should work...?

How about a feed tube extension that gets the drop point to the center of the scale plate. Has anyone experimented with this possibility?

 

[spclark]

Monte I ended up with the pinched soda straw on my Omega 2 for exactly the reasons you noted. I still get an infrequent clump. I'll keep suitable straw stock handy once I've received & started using my Adam's Device.

IPSCNUT that's an interesting thought you've posted. I've not felt 'centering' the drop point for my Omega to be at all necessary on the MXX-123 I've been using. Hopefully the different technology of an FX-120i won't be compromised by an off-center scale pan?

Any current users willing to comment?