Barrel length barrel length and muzzle vel

[Hengehold]

I am considering a 223 Palma gun and am not sure what length of barrel would be appropriate to keep the 80 grain bullets supersonic at 1k.

I reviewed the article about barrels on this site...
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/barrel-faq/

It looks like there is almost no benefit to me Merrill greater than 28 inches with a small case such as the 6br which was tested in that article. Since a 223 has less powder than a 6br, I am wondering if there would be any benefit to a barrel longer than 28 inches . Perhaps 100% of the powder would be burned up within the 28 inches which would yield no significant improvement in velocity.

1. Can anyone out there with Quickload tell me how long of a barrel it would take for 100% powder burn using a 80 grain bullet in a 223 unmodified case ?

2. Does anyone have any experience with 223 in a Palma rifle? What did you have to do to make it work at 1k?

Thanks,

-Trevor H.

 

[barefooter56]

I am considering a 223 Palma gun and am not sure what length of barrel would be appropriate to keep the 80 grain bullets supersonic at 1k.

I reviewed the article about barrels on this site...
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/barrel-faq/

It looks like there is almost no benefit to me Merrill greater than 28 inches with a small case such as the 6br which was tested in that article. Since a 223 has less powder than a 6br, I am wondering if there would be any benefit to a barrel longer than 28 inches . Perhaps 100% of the powder would be burned up within the 28 inches which would yield no significant improvement in velocity.

1. Can anyone out there with Quickload tell me how long of a barrel it would take for 100% powder burn using a 80 grain bullet in a 223 unmodified case ?

2. Does anyone have any experience with 223 in a Palma rifle? What did you have to do to make it work at 1k?

Thanks,

-Trevor H.

Trevor,
If you are going to shoot PALMA you will be using aperture sights and will need a 30 inch barrel to have the correct sight radius. Also I suggest you get a quality stock that is very adjustable as far as length of pull , adjustable butt plate that will adjust both vertically and for cast on or cast off , an adjustable cheek piece that adjustable both for height and cast on or cast off (left and right). I shot PALMA for 12 years. great competition !

 

[raptor1ronin]

Don't use a palma Rifle but do use my FTR backup gun with a 7.7 Bartlien barrel on it at 28" pushing an 80VLD at 2960 and have no problem reaching 1000 YARDS, But boy does wind play a huge part with those .

 

[Hengehold]

Don't use a palma Rifle but do use my FTR backup gun with a 7.7 Bartlien barrel on it at 28" pushing an 80VLD at 2960 and have no problem reaching 1000 YARDS, But boy does wind play a huge part with those .

Thanks, that is exactly what I wanted to know.

-Trevor

 

[watercam]

As Trevor is a past member of the U.S. National Palma Team I look forward to his analysis of using the .223 for Long Range. I have been toying with the concept myself. Member Laurie is a great resource on the subject.
Let us not forget the Houle tube can make up for shorter barrels...

 

[Berger.Fan222]

According to QL, you gain about 40 fps with a 30" barrel over a 28" barrel with an 80 grain bullet loaded to 2.5" and a max or near max load of Varget.

 

[raptor1ronin]

I don't use Varget for that gun. My main gun is 32" barrel and I use Varget to push my 90vlds. On the 28" I use 8208xbr and it's a Tac driver at 600 yards.

 

[savagedasher]

20 feet per inch sound about right. Larry

 

[Hengehold]

According to QL, you gain about 40 fps with a 30" barrel over a 28" barrel with an 80 grain bullet loaded to 2.5" and a max or near max load of Varget.

Thank you.
-Trevor

 

[Hengehold]

As Trevor is a past member of the U.S. National Palma Team I look forward to his analysis of using the .223 for Long Range. I have been toying with the concept myself. Member Laurie is a great resource on the subject.
Let us not forget the Houle tube can make up for shorter barrels...

Thanks for the kind words. If I ever get around to putting one together, I will be sure to share my experiences.

 

[Ned Ludd]

As Trevor is a past member of the U.S. National Palma Team I look forward to his analysis of using the .223 for Long Range. I have been toying with the concept myself. Member Laurie is a great resource on the subject.
Let us not forget the Houle tube can make up for shorter barrels...

FWIW - if you're interested in shooting the .223 Rem in LR, take a look in the "Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s" forum, particularly in the first 3 pages or so. There are a number of very informative posts there detailing the experiences of several members of this forum that have been successfully shooting the .223 in MR and LR comps.

 

[boltman223]

I have shot 80 smk's in a few F-TR matches at 1000. It was a 28" barrel shooting at 2885 fps. They made it to 1000 yds just fine at 900' above sea level and in the 60-90 degree temps. Accuracy was pretty good too.Like raptor said though they BLOW around!

Is there any particular reason you want to shoot 80's instead of the 90's?

 

[Hengehold]

I have shot 80 smk's in a few F-TR matches at 1000. It was a 28" barrel shooting at 2885 fps. They made it to 1000 yds just fine at 900' above sea level and in the 60-90 degree temps. Accuracy was pretty good too.Like raptor said though they BLOW around!

Is there any particular reason you want to shoot 80's instead of the 90's?

I am sticking with the 80 grain bullets because the international Palma rules ICFRA require a bullet less than 81 gr in weight to be used in a 223.

I also would like to have the option to to shoot this as a palma rifle in the Canadian national championships which has a bullet weight restriction.
-Trevor

 

[Ned Ludd]

It's worth noting that barrel length is not solely about velocity. In my hands, barrels from about 16" to 26" show an increase in the neighborhood of 20-25 fps per added inch of barrel length. Past 28", that figure goes down to less than 10 fps. However, a 30" barrel can allow you to hit an accuracy node (specific velocity window) at slightly lower pressure than a 28" barrel (or less). As an F-TR shooter that regularly shoots 90 VLDs from a .223 bolt gun at 600 and 1000 yd, I know something about this. Pressure and brass life can be a significant issue in the .223 when trying to eek out every bit of performance using the heavies. Unless you have a very good reason not to do so, I would strongly recommend getting a 30" barrel at a minimum. I use a 30" M24 contour, but you could easily go with one of the lighter Palma contours if weight became an issue. Trust me on this one, you can hit the sweet spot at slightly lower pressure; as a result, your brass life will be better, and you won't be giving up anything in terms of precision.

 

[savagedasher]

Velocity change not only is from barrel length but the powder used along barrel length . Larry

 

[Hengehold]

It's worth noting that barrel length is not solely about velocity. In my hands, barrels from about 16" to 26" show an increase in the neighborhood of 20-25 fps per added inch of barrel length. Past 28", that figure goes down to less than 10 fps. However, a 30" barrel can allow you to hit an accuracy node (specific velocity window) at slightly lower pressure than a 28" barrel (or less). As an F-TR shooter that regularly shoots 90 VLDs from a .223 bolt gun at 600 and 1000 yd, I know something about this. Pressure and brass life can be a significant issue in the .223 when trying to eek out every bit of performance using the heavies. Unless you have a very good reason not to do so, I would strongly recommend getting a 30" barrel at a minimum. I use a 30" M24 contour, but you could easily go with one of the lighter Palma contours if weight became an issue. Trust me on this one, you can hit the sweet spot at slightly lower pressure; as a result, your brass life will be better, and you won't be giving up anything in terms of precision.

Great point. Thanks.
-Trevor