Hard click at top of bolt lift

[gme]

That makes absolutely no sence to me; the scary part about that is there are reloaders that will agree with you and pretend they are listening.

I form cases for short chambers that are shorter in length than a minimum length case when measured from the shoulder of the case to the case head. I accomplish that without grinding the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. I can not believe a reloader would do something as irresponsible as grinding the top of a shell holder without knowing why and or how much.

F. Guffey

you dont understand that this has nothing to do with forming shorter cases or short chambers, that's why it makes no sense to you

 

[fguffey]

you dont understand that this has nothing to do with forming shorter cases or short chambers, that's why it makes no sense to you

I do know if the shell holder deck height is reduced by .020' to .030" the ability of the shell holder and die to shorten the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head has increased from .020" to .030". Meaning instead of sizing a case to minimum length full length sized the case is sized from .020" to .030" shorter than a minimum length/full length sized case.

If a reloader is going to grind the die and or shell holder I believe they should determine how much is required to ground off instead of taking a wild guestimate. The problem with grinding the die or shell holder the reloader will be required to learn how to adjust the die to the shell holder. There are times I add I add .014” to the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head; and then there are times I size cases for short chambers. I do not find it necessary to grind the shell holder and or die.


Grinding dies and or shell holders is not a problem; I have the machine that grinds pilots, angles and stock to length. If there was a benefit and or advantage to grinding I would do it.


F. Guffey

 

[gme]

like I said...

 

[savagedasher]

Why would someone change anything till they know what the problem is? Larry

 

[/VH]

Why would someone change anything till they know what the problem is? Larry

Possibly as an attempt to figure out what the problem is??

 

[savagedasher]

Possibly as an attempt to figure out what the problem is??

First thing I would check is bolt timing. Then I would check the case. Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

Nothing is caused by a chamber that's 'too small'. It's the chamber(your best die) that creates your final cartridge.
.

Absolutely not true. When you make the back end of the reamer too small you get click. The die will not touch it and does no sizing. Many gunsmiths have tightened up the back end of reamers to keep primer pockets tight. It creates a problem called bolt click. The die needs to be able to size this area. Matt

 

[LHSmith]

Nothing is caused by a chamber that's 'too small'. It's the chamber(your best die) that creates your final cartridge.
I've run a fitted 6.5wssm at SAAMI max (according to QL) for over 30 reload cycles with zero body, base, or neck sizing. The brass chambers and extracts just as it did freshly fire formed(easy), and seating force remains unchanged.
I did this by setting the web clearance, and all other clearances at 1thou over new Win reloading brass. With this, brass expanding parallel to chamber simply springs back, and no sizing is ever needed there. I also made sure I had enough barrel steel around that magnum chamber diameter(magnum tenon). This is not big clearances and small base dies, or honing out the breech, or any other band aids.
It's up front understanding and planning.

Where was the "up front understanding and planning" when you chose to use one of the worst case designs and resultant product non-support on the part of the manufacturer? To apply the method forced on you to make this abortion case design work for you to other cartridges would be superfluous and irrelevant to the Op's problem.

 

[Rem06]

Absolutely not true. When you make the back end of the reamer too small you get click. The die will not touch it and does no sizing. Many gunsmiths have tightened up the back end of reamers to keep primer pockets tight. It creates a problem called bolt click. The die needs to be able to size this area. Matt

I had this with my 300NM (bolt click) , set of Forster dies. I called Forster with this problem and they told me to send in 3 fired cases and return the FL resizer and they will correct it. I do believe they Quoted that it was not resizing the lower case body and they corrected it.

 

[sdneil]

The action is a Farley...I am sure it is not OUT of time... I will get it figured out...hopefully a little more sizing at the base will fix problem...loads are Not hot...Neil

 

[tightneck]

To the OP, the problem you are having is quite common. Some folks here have a good understanding of what's happening, others are simply guessing. The sizing die is not sizing the base of the case enough to get smooth extraction, hence the "click" at the top of the bolt lift. It has nothing to do with timing, pushing the shoulder back, etc. There are two simple fixes for this problem. A gunsmith can chuck the barrel up and polish (enlarge) the back end of the chamber so that the existing die will work, or you can get a FL die that works with your existing chamber. There's a reason that shooters pay $150+ for custom FL dies. It's not because they like pissing money away. It's because there's no such thing as one size fits all, when it comes to custom rifle chambers. There are literally dozens of different reamer specs/designs for the average cartridge. For some cartridges, like the 6PPC, there are hundreds. In the short range BR game, where thousanth's of an inch separate the winners from the losers, the wrong FL die can can cause a shooter to be a mid pack competitor until he figures it out.

 

[dmoran]

^^^^ +1 .... tightneck is spot on !.!.!

It is a very common issue with custom chambers and generic dies.
Then there is 3 others posts that prove to me how little they know, of which are just plain silly & goofy.

Good Luck
Donovan

 

[Tim Singleton]

To the OP, the problem you are having is quite common. Some folks here have a good understanding of what's happening, others are simply guessing. The sizing die is not sizing the base of the case enough to get smooth extraction, hence the "click" at the top of the bolt lift. It has nothing to do with timing, pushing the shoulder back, etc. There are two simple fixes for this problem. A gunsmith can chuck the barrel up and polish (enlarge) the back end of the chamber so that the existing die will work, or you can get a FL die that works with your existing chamber. There's a reason that shooters pay $150+ for custom FL dies. It's not because they like pissing money away. It's because there's no such thing as one size fits all, when it comes to custom rifle chambers. There are literally dozens of different reamer specs/designs for the average cartridge. For some cartridges, like the 6PPC, there are hundreds. In the short range BR game, where thousanth's of an inch separate the winners from the losers, the wrong FL die can can cause a shooter to be a mid pack competitor until he figures it out.

Tight neck is right
Paul Bike makes a ring die. It has no shoulder sizing capacity it is a ring sized to squeeze the base. If you don't have time to wait on a full custom set of dies his ring die will work until you do. Or you go to a different reamer for your next barrel

 

[1shot]

I had this with my 300NM (bolt click) , set of Forster dies. I called Forster with this problem and they told me to send in 3 fired cases and return the FL resizer and they will correct it. I do believe they Quoted that it was not resizing the lower case body and they corrected it.

The above post jogged my memory, several of you are on the right path. I had a 6.5x284 using a custom reamer and a factory Redding die. I didn't have a click, I had to pound the bolt up with the heel of my hand! After doing the grind the shell holder and the small base sizer routes, my rifle-smith discovered the cause. The sizer die was defective. When being machined, a small groove was made at the shoulder/body junction. When the round was fired, it created a ring around that area in the brass and wouldn't allow the case to extract. Look to the die for your problem.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[sdneil]

Thanks Tightneck...Neil G

 

[GSPV]

I talked with a fellow that is well-known in the short-range BR game. He shoots a 22-100 PPC. He has his own reamer. Chambers his on barrels. He still has three different Harrell's custom FL dies to get the bump and base resize exactly right. FWIW.

 

[savagedasher]

Thanks Tightneck...Neil G

Here is a simple test . Remove your bolt
Put a fired case in the chamber push it all the way in the chamber . With a cleaning rod it should only take a lite bump and come out.
If that same case with the bolt gives the click You can deside where the problem is. Larry

 

[fguffey]

Absolutely not true. When you make the back end of the reamer too small you get click. The die will not touch it and does no sizing. Many gunsmiths have tightened up the back end of reamers to keep primer pockets tight. It creates a problem called bolt click. The die needs to be able to size this area. Matt

When it comes to sizing 'that area' I am out of luck, I use shell holders, my shell holders have a deck height of .125". This should not come as a surprise to all the experienced on this forum but my shell holder prevents my die from sizing the bottom .125" of the case head and it should come as no surprise the primer is in the case head and is below the .125" limiter (shell holder).

Then there is the Remington with the ring around the ring around the ring; meaning the case head when fired is against the bolt face and surround with one of the rings. So if someone is going to prevent case head expansion they should figure a way to reduce the inside diameter of the ring around the case head.

Again, I have a few dies that I have always considered mistakes, they are so tight they keep every case that is shoved into them. I will never consider the dies were made for little bitty tiny chambers. I know I could send them back to RCBS but as sure as I do I will be stuck with a rifle with a little bitty chamber, but unlike most I would have to determine how I got a case to chamber in that little bitty tiny chamber and then I would have to determine how the case head expanded when fired if the chamber was little bity tiny.

I can only guess I have a set of super small base dies, I understand it is not the base of the case that is small it has to be the base of the die that is small because of the deck height of my shell holders. My shell holders prevent the case head from being sized.

F. Guffey

 

[dkhunt14]

I can only guess I have a set of super small base dies, I understand it is not the base of the case that is small it has to be the base of the die that is small because of the deck height of my shell holders. My shell holders prevent the case head from being sized.

F. Guffey

I can size to the extractor groove. I can usually get .0005 right to the fat part of the case right in front of the groove. I have tools that I can actually measure it with. They don't measure in tensions, they measure in thousandths. Matt

 

[BoydAllen]

If you look at the typical FL die, there is a chamfer or radius at the opening, that can be quite generous. Within this area, no sizing can be done.

I have a Harrell Vari-Base die that has interchangeable inserts for sizing the base of cases. Those inserts thread into the die body, and come in ID increments of .001. They do not have the typical generous radius that I referred to above. They have almost none. Typically, I use an insert that gives me .0005 sizing above the extractor groove. A while back, when I was having an issue with fired cases from one of my barrels, at the top of the bolt lift, with the die adjusted for .001 shoulder bump from a tight case. I noticed that because I had previously taken about .014 off of the shell holder, that there was a gap between it and the bottom of the die insert, so I unscrewed the insert to the point where it made very light contact, which of course meant that I was sizing farther down the case. It worked. My bolt lift was normal from that point forward, and did not return.

The point of this little story is to illustrate that my take on this issue has been confirmed by actual test. Putting the information to use in another caliber would be a lot more complicated, given that these dies are out of production and were only made in a couple of calibers, but if someone wanted to do some planning he could produce a chamber, die, and shell holder setup that allowed for sizing farther down the case. As long as your die can reach a little past where your chamber does, you will have what you need.