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Setting up (calibrating) reloading dies.

Ok, new to reloading here. Will be sitting down with a long time reloader/gunsmith friend to start out, set up dies and start load development.

It's my understsnding that in setting up the dies it's essentially trial and error. Size a case, measure it, if it's off, adjust the die, repeat. Correct?

Any tips or tricks to consider? FL sizing and neck sizing.

On bullet seating dies, same thing? Where do you start on seating depth, the specific number on the specs sheet for COAL and move longer. Or start at the lands and move shorter?

Been working 7 days a week so time has been limited. I'll have my weekends free in a week or two so I plan on getting started then.

Will start with my 6.5CM then jump to the 6.5-284.

Tips and tricks appreciated. Rest assured I plan on being supervised and taking things conservatively for awhile till I get the hang of it. I've seen what bad hand loads can do first hand many times having worked at the largest public shooting facility and I really enjoy my fingers staying where God put them.
 
I should add that Im using a Rock Chucker supreme with a lock and load system.

RCBS standard dies for the 6.5CM and Redding competition dies for the 6.5-284.
 
Ok, new to reloading here. Will be sitting down with a long time reloader/gunsmith friend to start out, set up dies and start load development.

It's my understsnding that in setting up the dies it's essentially trial and error. Size a case, measure it, if it's off, adjust the die, repeat. Correct?

Any tips or tricks to consider? FL sizing and neck sizing.

On bullet seating dies, same thing? Where do you start on seating depth, the specific number on the specs sheet for COAL and move longer. Or start at the lands and move shorter?

Been working 7 days a week so time has been limited. I'll have my weekends free in a week or two so I plan on getting started then.

Will start with my 6.5CM then jump to the 6.5-284.

Tips and tricks appreciated. Rest assured I plan on being supervised and taking things conservatively for awhile till I get the hang of it. I've seen what bad hand loads can do first hand many times having worked at the largest public shooting facility and I really enjoy my fingers staying where God put them.
Let your long time reloader/gunsmith friend guide you. Some things to keep in mind: are you planning on using the magazine? or single shot? this will help guide you in OAL. Find your best powder load first, then work on OAL. My Creedmore likes the 123 grain Amax and 44.4 grains H4350. You'll figure out the "tips and tricks along the way.
 
Great idea to take input from an experienced reloader. Do yourself a favor and buy a quality reloading manual (or two) with a good glossary of terms. Familiarize yourself with the terms & get a good basic understanding of the steps of the reloading process. Hornady, Lee, & Lyman manuals would be a good place to start. Since you have a few weeks before actually getting started use your spare time to educate yourself and you'll be waaaay ahead of the game. ........... Welcome to the forum and have fun.
 
I have several editions of I think every American reloading manual ever published. You can never have too many such books, but some are more comprehensive for teaching and explaining than others. The Richard Lee and the Lyman are good ones for beginners, but they tend to promote their own line of tools. The Hornady is another good choice. They all have powder charge data, but Hodgdon's data are easily viewed online:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

You will almost certainly want to get the Hornady Lock-N-Load Overall Length Gage and comparators for your bullets and cases:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action

Without this tool, establishing bullet seating and case resizing parameters is more trial-and-error and jury-rigged than it needs to be.

-
 
Ok, new to reloading here. Will be sitting down with a long time reloader/gunsmith friend to start out, set up dies and start load development.

It's my understsnding that in setting up the dies it's essentially trial and error. Size a case, measure it, if it's off, adjust the die, repeat. Correct?
There is a better way. I do not like flying blind. Here is my idea process for a new set up. It requires a case length comparator. I also tend to use case gages and headspace gages as back means of verifying my numbers.
1. I take my shell holder and my dies and set them up in a heavy duty O frame press. I set the die to bottom out against the shell holder.
2. I remove the decapping stem and size the case multiple times while rotating the case each time about 60 to 90 degrees. I let the press dwell at the top of the stroke for 3 to 5 seconds each time. This gives the brass time to creep and take a set at the exact dimension of the die. You may even relube the case lightly one or twice. But keep sizing the case until you can feel that it is no longer being moved by the die.
3. Measure your case length with the case length comparator. If you have a headspace gage for your chamber you can zero the comparator with the HS gage and get a true reading. This reading is the length of your die. Record it. Unless you modify your die it will always have this dimension.
4. Remove the firing pin assy from your bolt. If it has a plunger ejector you can remove it too. Then back up your FL die and size a long case until it just fits your chamber. You should feel the bolt drag lightly as you close the bolt with 1 finger. Repeat this sizing with several cases until you know you have it perfect. Then measure your case with the case comparator. If you have the comparator zeroed off of a HS gage you will get the exact true length of your chamber. Record that number because it will no change.
5. Now compare your FL die to your chamber. With RCBS dies the dimension is usually about .002 shorter than the NO-GO gauge length.
Based on the delta between your chamber and your die you can decide how to set up your die and it is easy to do with a feeler gauge between the bottom of the die and the shell holder. Or if you do not want to use a feeler gage a .040 rotation on the outside diameter of the die thread will give right at .001 movement up or down on the die.




Any tips or tricks to consider? FL sizing and neck sizing.

On bullet seating dies, same thing? Where do you start on seating depth, the specific number on the specs sheet for COAL and move longer. Or start at the lands and move shorter? <<<<< I do this to establish a limit. Then all adjusting goes one way and that is shorter.

Been working 7 days a week so time has been limited. I'll have my weekends free in a week or two so I plan on getting started then.
Don't reload anything if you don't have the luxury of being able to take your time and learn to process the ammo at the pace of your normal thought processes. Handloading and fast fast fast do not go together. Start out with good habits that triple check everything and some day you can slack off to where you only double check everything.

Will start with my 6.5CM then jump to the 6.5-284.

Tips and tricks appreciated. Rest assured I plan on being supervised and taking things conservatively for awhile till I get the hang of it. I've seen what bad hand loads can do first hand many times having worked at the largest public shooting facility and I really enjoy my fingers staying where God put them.

The process is simple and you cannot cut corners

1. You knock out the old primer and clean the crud out of the cases
2. Size the case so that it can both retain a bullet and it fits your chamber.
3. Press in a new primer
4. Pour in exactly the right amount of the correct powder
5. Seat the bullet.

You perform the same operation on all the cases before you move on to the next operation.
If you perform all operations exactly right on all rounds, when you get to the end of #5 you have a batch of good ammo.
 
I've got a Speer manual I've read. Berger information sheets. A book called Making Ammo, user manuals for the equipment I've bought. The Hodgedon periodical manual. Several PDFs I've downloaded, along with many articles. Still planning on buying a Berger book, borrowing one currently. And still reading up on things.

Thanks for mentioning the Magazine feed issue. That definitely needs to be accounted for with the 6.5CM as it is magazine fed.
 
The process is simple and you cannot cut corners

1. You knock out the old primer and clean the crud out of the cases
2. Size the case so that it can both retain a bullet and it fits your chamber.
3. Press in a new primer
4. Pour in exactly the right amount of the correct powder
5. Seat the bullet.

You perform the same operation on all the cases before you move on to the next operation.
If you perform all operations exactly right on all rounds, when you get to the end of #5 you have a batch of good ammo.
That's not what I asked... I understand the steps in reloading...
 
The process is simple and you cannot cut corners

1. You knock out the old primer and clean the crud out of the cases
2. Size the case so that it can both retain a bullet and it fits your chamber.
3. Press in a new primer
4. Pour in exactly the right amount of the correct powder
5. Seat the bullet.

You perform the same operation on all the cases before you move on to the next operation.
If you perform all operations exactly right on all rounds, when you get to the end of #5 you have a batch of good ammo.
I see the tips in the quote now. Thank you!
 
The process is simple and you cannot cut corners

1. You knock out the old primer and clean the crud out of the cases
2. Size the case so that it can both retain a bullet and it fits your chamber.
3. Press in a new primer
4. Pour in exactly the right amount of the correct powder
5. Seat the bullet.

You perform the same operation on all the cases before you move on to the next operation.
If you perform all operations exactly right on all rounds, when you get to the end of #5 you have a batch of good ammo.
You mean like a Wilson Case Gage and a CTS Engineering Headspace gage? (http://www.ctstrimmer.com/case-gauges/21-case-gauge.html)
I have those for 6.5CM.
 
The Wilson style gages give you a means to double check your case length comparator if you have one
The gunsmith style headspace chamber gauges give you a way to set the case length comparator to a true zero.
The bushings for the Hornady LNL case comparator have the edges of the datum bores broken (deburred) when they are deburred they give an erroneous reading of a few thousandths. Use of the gunsmith type gauges eliminates this error.

I do not have a CTS gauge and your post is the first information I have seen on them.
Maybe you can tell me it if is just a comparator or if you get a specific measurement that relates to the SAAMI dimensions?

You mean like a Wilson Case Gage and a CTS Engineering Headspace gage? (http://www.ctstrimmer.com/case-gauges/21-case-gauge.html)
I have those for 6.5CM.
 
For all calibers except my PPCs, I use what Hornady calls their Headspace Gauge, which is really a misnomer, since it is really a shoulder position comparitor. If you back your FL die up so that it is about the thickness of a dime above the highest position that the shell holder comes to when the press ram is raised, you can start adjusting down from there. If you are using a bushing die, remove the bushing so as not to over work the neck by sizing it multiple times while arriving at your adjustment. If you are working with a one piece die, remove the expander assembly for the same reason. You will have to replace the bushing or expander for one more sizing to get your neck to the right OD. As you adjust downward keep in mind that for each full turn of a 7/8 14 thread that that the die will rise or fall approximately .071. This is good to keep in mind when you are trying to hit your shoulder bump to an accuracy of .001. The first time that you size the case, the shoulder to head dimension is likely to get longer, because you have squeezed the sides of the case body to a smaller diameter, but the case shoulder has not yet come into contact with the die shoulder at the top of the ram stroke. As you adjust the die down a little bit at a time, the case will start to contact the shoulder and the head shoulder dimension will shorten a little with each adjustment, until you reach your goal. If you are sizing brass for bolt action, and the case that you are using as a reference for shoulder bump is once fired, the first thing that you should try is to set your die so that the shoulder to head distance is the same as the fired case. One firing does not generally result in a case being tight shoulder to head. You can test for fit at this setting. It will probably be fine. Remember to wipe all of the lube off of the case before you chamber it. You don't want a lubed chamber, and it is easier to remove the lube from the case than from the chamber. Before you measure a fired case, either remove the primer or simply reseat it so that it is well below flush with the case head. That should be enough for one installment, but I will include one thing about setting up threaded sizing dies. because many have a built in crimp feature, in those cases you will need to set the die up high enough to keep that form happening. Usually, I use a case as a reference, lowering the die around it, and when I feel resistance, backing the die up just enough so that it will not crimp a max length case.
 
I do not have a CTS gauge and your post is the first information I have seen on them.
Maybe you can tell me it if is just a comparator or if you get a specific measurement that relates to the SAAMI dimensions?

I'll post a picture of the instructions it came with and you tell me... Lol
It just so happened to come with the CTS case trimmer I bought.
 

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Boyd,

In the last part of your post where you mentioned threaded sizing dies, I think you intended 'threaded seating dies.'

Just checkin.

Brian
 
I'll post a picture of the instructions it came with and you tell me... Lol
It just so happened to come with the CTS case trimmer I bought.
I have not seen this cts gauge before. Looks like it works on the same principle as other shoulder bump gauges.
 
You should check the sinclair reloading videos on Youtube.com and buy a copy of the "ABC's of Reloading":
http://amzn.com/1440213968

It takes a while to start making accurate ammo. When you start you mostly worry about the basics like not getting any primers in backwards and not making a bunch of squibs.

For accurate ammo, I like this author's book but he's more practical than benchrest:
http://amzn.com/096269259X
 
....

On bullet seating dies, same thing? Where do you start on seating depth, the specific number on the specs sheet for COAL and move longer. Or start at the lands and move shorter?

I'll throw this in for your consideration as folks seem to have their own ideas and systems on what works for them. And BTW, that's an important thing to remember...listen to what folks have to offer, but in the end, find out what works and what doesn't work for YOU!

After many offerings of ideas and practices, what I found works for me (and to address your seating depth question), what I have done in the past, is I've gone to whatever loading manual I am using (and I sometimes cross reference two or three manuals for that weight of bullet) and I determine whatever OAL length they list as the "Accuracy Load." I then measure that OAL using a micrometer for the Ojive Measurement which is the measurement I ultimately use when checking my finished loads for continuity in all my loads in a group. Back to the "Accuracy Load Measurement"/Ojive measurement; I start out with that initial Ojive measurement and then seat the bullet .010 closer to the rifling in the chamber. I usually load 3 sets of 3 rds and shoot them in my rifle for accuracy. I then move the next set of three .010 closer to the rifling and repeat that step until my bullets arr touching the rifling and even into "jam." When you compare the targets (all shot at 100 yds for initial testing) you'll quickly see changes that'll tell you what your particular rifle likes or dislikes. And what is important, that what works in one rifle, doesn't necessarily work in another rifle, even if of the same make and model. Hence the reason why you test in the first place.

And as to the brass, I have RCBS Precision Mics that I use for every caliber I reload for. And after my brass is fire formed, I measure the brass (using my RCBS Precision mic) before firing and after firing to record the change in shoulder measurement. Essentially it'll tell you how much shoulder have moved in your casings. Then you have to determine the spot (shoulder measurement) where when you "bump your shoulder", that your bolt will close where you can feel a SLIGHT tightness when closing the bolt. Essentially, the best change for "bumping" a shoulder is .002. And that is the change or what I'm looking for when using my Precision Mics. The reason for the .002 change is that is the least amount of "working" your brass that adds to the life of your brass.

I hope I've not confused you with any of this. I have used various systems of measurement and tools over the years. And the above systems is what I've found works best for me and is backed up on what my targets show down range. Holler or PM me if you need clarification on anything I've written. But like I said, listen to what others have to offer and then figure out which you like the best and is backed up on your targets downrange, which is proof it works.

Alex
 
For measuring your overall length buy the Sinclair Overall length gauge vs. the Hornady Guage:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...lair-bullet-seating-depth-tool-prod35491.aspx

The Hornady gauge is hard to use and i find it difficult to be repeatable (i've been told the bent angled version that i have is even harder than the straight version). For safety, start 0.020" off the lands. Also, when recording your lengths sure you're measuring off the OGive of the bullet to the base as measuring to the tip is inaccurate.

Speaking of recording data, you should start a log book. If you don't you'll be kicking yourself in the nuts a year from now when you can't remember your load data. Make sure to at least write down the C.O.A.L (+Ogive to base measurement), charge weight and components used.

For load development read up on Erik Cortina's 1000 yard dev @ 100 yards (a thread here on this forum). Also, check out the OCW method.

For components that are hard to find (Trail Boss Powder for example) sites like gunbot.net and ammoseek.com are useful. I buy ALOT of stuff from Powder Valley and try to buy in as big of batches as possible to cut down on shipping costs.
 
I'll throw this in for your consideration as folks seem to have their own ideas and systems on what works for them. And BTW, that's an important thing to remember...listen to what folks have to offer, but in the end, find out what works and what doesn't work for YOU!

After many offerings of ideas and practices, what I found works for me (and to address your seating depth question), what I have done in the past, is I've gone to whatever loading manual I am using (and I sometimes cross reference two or three manuals for that weight of bullet) and I determine whatever OAL length they list as the "Accuracy Load." I then measure that OAL using a micrometer for the Ojive Measurement which is the measurement I ultimately use when checking my finished loads for continuity in all my loads in a group. Back to the "Accuracy Load Measurement"/Ojive measurement; I start out with that initial Ojive measurement and then seat the bullet .010 closer to the rifling in the chamber. I usually load 3 sets of 3 rds and shoot them in my rifle for accuracy. I then move the next set of three .010 closer to the rifling and repeat that step until my bullets arr touching the rifling and even into "jam." When you compare the targets (all shot at 100 yds for initial testing) you'll quickly see changes that'll tell you what your particular rifle likes or dislikes. And what is important, that what works in one rifle, doesn't necessarily work in another rifle, even if of the same make and model. Hence the reason why you test in the first place.

And as to the brass, I have RCBS Precision Mics that I use for every caliber I reload for. And after my brass is fire formed, I measure the brass (using my RCBS Precision mic) before firing and after firing to record the change in shoulder measurement. Essentially it'll tell you how much shoulder have moved in your casings. Then you have to determine the spot (shoulder measurement) where when you "bump your shoulder", that your bolt will close where you can feel a SLIGHT tightness when closing the bolt. Essentially, the best change for "bumping" a shoulder is .002. And that is the change or what I'm looking for when using my Precision Mics. The reason for the .002 change is that is the least amount of "working" your brass that adds to the life of your brass.

I hope I've not confused you with any of this. I have used various systems of measurement and tools over the years. And the above systems is what I've found works best for me and is backed up on what my targets show down range. Holler or PM me if you need clarification on anything I've written. But like I said, listen to what others have to offer and then figure out which you like the best and is backed up on your targets downrange, which is proof it works.

Alex
No confusion, and that's the point of why I'm asking, to get several sources of different ideas and methods and choosing which one I think works for me best.
 
For measuring your overall length buy the Sinclair Overall length gauge vs. the Hornady Guage:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...lair-bullet-seating-depth-tool-prod35491.aspx

The Hornady gauge is hard to use and i find it difficult to be repeatable (i've been told the bent angled version that i have is even harder than the straight version). For safety, start 0.020" off the lands. Also, when recording your lengths sure you're measuring off the OGive of the bullet to the base as measuring to the tip is inaccurate.

Speaking of recording data, you should start a log book. If you don't you'll be kicking yourself in the nuts a year from now when you can't remember your load data. Make sure to at least write down the C.O.A.L (+Ogive to base measurement), charge weight and components used.

For load development read up on Erik Cortina's 1000 yard dev @ 100 yards (a thread here on this forum). Also, check out the OCW method.

For components that are hard to find (Trail Boss Powder for example) sites like gunbot.net and ammoseek.com are useful. I buy ALOT of stuff from Powder Valley and try to buy in as big of batches as possible to cut down on shipping costs.
How do you measure from the Ogive?

I will definitely be logging everything.
 

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