6.5x47 Lapua Hang fires

[mao0720]

Im having issues with my 6.5x47 Lapua having hang fires and the occasional misfire. The firing pin spring is new and the action/ barrel only have about 250 rounds through them. Im thinking it might be a primer issues. My full load is 37gr of Reloder 15, Wolf SR primers, 123gr Lapua scenar seated into the lands. Temps outside have been about 50 degrees F. The odd thing is that this a new issue, but I am using the same lot of primers and powder as I have since I started shooting this rifle. I plan on doing a primer test with 3 other types of primers/ and some ammo I loaded several months ago. In the mean time does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks.
Mason

 

[AckleymanII]

try other primers

 

[Thud]

Before blaming the primers try these things.
Take bolt apart and clean it.
Clean trigger (may have dried gunk in it)
clean chamber

 

[ShootDots]

Im having issues with my 6.5x47 Lapua having hang fires and the occasional misfire. The firing pin spring is new and the action/ barrel only have about 250 rounds through them. Im thinking it might be a primer issues. My full load is 37gr of Reloder 15, Wolf SR primers, 123gr Lapua scenar seated into the lands. Temps outside have been about 50 degrees F. The odd thing is that this a new issue, but I am using the same lot of primers and powder as I have since I started shooting this rifle. I plan on doing a primer test with 3 other types of primers/ and some ammo I loaded several months ago. In the mean time does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks.
Mason

I will tell you right now where your problem is.. The fault lies in the Wolf S/R primers. I have heard you have to REALLY seat them hard. Well I have seated them til there is a slight "crush" on the primers. However, I have a thousand of the S/R and a thousand of the SRM's where BOTH will constantly misfire and others go "Tink - BOOM"! You can hear the firing pin strike the primer and a split second later the round fires. I do not believe I have "normal" Wolf S/R and S/RM's. I believe I have a bad lot of each! I also have 5 thousand of the Wolf L/R primers that are flawless. Wolf must have received a HUGE lot of bad S/R's and S/RM's as this complaint is widespread!

 

[mao0720]

I will tell you right now where your problem is.. The fault lies in the Wolf S/R primers. I have heard you have to REALLY seat them hard. Well I have seated them til there is a slight "crush" on the primers. However, I have a thousand of the S/R and a thousand of the SRM's where BOTH will constantly misfire and others go "Tink - BOOM"! You can hear the firing pin strike the primer and a split second later the round fires. I do not believe I have "normal" Wolf S/R and S/RM's. I believe I have a bad lot of each! I also have 5 thousand of the Wolf L/R primers that are flawless. Wolf must have received a HUGE lot of bad S/R's and S/RM's as this complaint is widespread!

This is exactly what is happening to me. If that is the case the I have 1k and possibly a 2k bad primers and near 200 ends of loaded Ammo, with bad primers. What is a good alternative to the wolf sr primers? I've got BR-4s and cci #41 mil spec small rifle primers.

 

[ShootDots]

This is exactly what is happening to me. If that is the case the I have 1k and possibly a 2k bad primers and near 200 ends of loaded Ammo, with bad primers. What is a good alternative to the wolf sr primers? I've got BR-4s and cci #41 mil spec small rifle primers.

Use either the CCI BR-4's and the CCI #41>>>they are both excellent!

 

[dale metzger]

I will tell you right now where your problem is.. The fault lies in the Wolf S/R primers. I have heard you have to REALLY seat them hard. Well I have seated them til there is a slight "crush" on the primers. However, I have a thousand of the S/R and a thousand of the SRM's where BOTH will constantly misfire and others go "Tink - BOOM"! You can hear the firing pin strike the primer and a split second later the round fires. I do not believe I have "normal" Wolf S/R and S/RM's. I believe I have a bad lot of each! I also have 5 thousand of the Wolf L/R primers that are flawless. Wolf must have received a HUGE lot of bad S/R's and S/RM's as this complaint is widespread!

I had the same issue when using Wolf SR Mag primers in a 6.5X47 Lapua.
Changed to CCI BR 4 and CCI 450's and the problem disappeared. I can't say for sure if the lot of primers were bad or not. They worked every time in PPC cases.
Hope you get your issue figured out.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Did you bump your shoulders too far back?

 

[DHD]

I will tell you right now where your problem is.. The fault lies in the Wolf S/R primers. I have heard you have to REALLY seat them hard. Well I have seated them til there is a slight "crush" on the primers. However, I have a thousand of the S/R and a thousand of the SRM's where BOTH will constantly misfire and others go "Tink - BOOM"! You can hear the firing pin strike the primer and a split second later the round fires. I do not believe I have "normal" Wolf S/R and S/RM's. I believe I have a bad lot of each! I also have 5 thousand of the Wolf L/R primers that are flawless. Wolf must have received a HUGE lot of bad S/R's and S/RM's as this complaint is widespread!

Benjamin and I had this same conversation a year or more back. They only time I've had misfires/hangfires, it is with the Wolf SRM (and yes I seated them HARD). Never with 450, 205, 205M, Remington 7 1/2. However, I would use a Wolf LRM over anything else.

If you think the hangfire was bad with a 6.5×47L case, try a Lapua Palma or old Remington URBR case. Click, wait for it, bang. Hey, if nothing else it teaches follow through. ...

When you test other SR primers, I would be shocked if the others did not work.

 

[mao0720]

Thanks guys. Guess Ill be testing some other primers next week. The funny thing is this did not rear its head during load development.

 

[joshb]

I've been having a misfire problem with a batch of Wolfs. Glad/sad it's not just me cause I thought I was the problem, not seating properly. I had prepped and primed 3000 cases last winter. I'm finally down to the last 300 or so I still have. About 10 misfires per 100. I've had no problem with the CCIs I switched to.

 

[mao0720]

I've been having a misfire problem with a batch of Wolfs. Glad/sad it's not just me cause I thought I was the problem, not seating properly. I had prepped and primed 3000 cases last winter. I'm finally down to the last 300 or so I still have. About 10 misfires per 100. I've had no problem with the CCIs I switched to.

What cartridge were you shooting them in?

 

[mao0720]

I had the same issue when using Wolf SR Mag primers in a 6.5X47 Lapua.
Changed to CCI BR 4 and CCI 450's and the problem disappeared. I can't say for sure if the lot of primers were bad or not. They worked every time in PPC cases.
Hope you get your issue figured out.

that's interesting that they worked in your PPC but not your 6.5x47. I wonder if my wolf primers will work fine in my 6mmAR or in my 5.56x45 AR.

 

[joshb]

What cartridge were you shooting them in?

.223 plinking/training ammo. The boxes are long gone so I have no batch numbers, etc.

 

[mao0720]

.223 plinking/training ammo. The boxes are long gone so I have no batch numbers, etc.

what powder?

 

[joshb]

what powder?

H335

 

[DHD]

that's interesting that they worked in your PPC but not your 6.5x47. I wonder if my wolf primers will work fine in my 6mmAR or in my 5.56x45 AR.

My problems with Wolf SRM's were with 6.5×47L, 6.5 Creedmoor (formed from Lapua Palma), Lapua Palma, and Remington URBR brass. Relatively large powder charges using a SR primer. FWIW, on the misfires, when I pulled down the loads, the powder was yellowed/scorched near the flashhole. Some heat got to the powder, just not enough. The hangfires were interesting though. It was a long hang, then fire.....

My point to the above rambling is I have not had any issues with 6.5 Grendel and/or 223 cases that I can remember. I still have 4000 or so of the da%*n things......

 

[Scott Harris]

Guess mileage varies. We've never had a single failure of a Wolf SRM primer to fire and I would estimate we've fired 40,000-50,000 of these over the years. Have used them in 223 REM, 6 BRX, 6.5x47, & 308 Palma without any issues. They do have thick cups and need to be struck solidly. Recommend you check the following to ensure success:
1. ensure the firing ping springs are 24+ lbs
2. use a small tip firing pin: .062"
3. seat primers firmly to the bottom of the cup 100% of the time...a little crush is a good thing.

I have seen a few folks with problems and it was always traced to a weak firing pin spring or them not seating the primers fully...or a primer that did fire but failed to ignite the powder....see below.

These primers give us awesome SDs, I'd suggest examining your setup a bit to identify the source of the problem. Guess it could be a bad lot, but primers seem to be one of the more reliable components across the board IMHO.

PS. We have had failures to fire. In all cases, I disassembled and inspected the round and found the primer had indeed fired, but the powder was yellow and contaminated from citric acid....wet cleaning.

PPS. I believe there are a couple of reasons some people see issues with Wolf SRM primers. One, they have really thick cups, which require very solid firing pin strikes. Two, these are very mild primers and that may cause issues with certain powders, too much powder, contaminated powder etc. So, these primers may not be suitable with all powder/cartridge combos. But they can also be the canary in the coal mine, pointing out a subtle ignition problem your rifle might have. The thick cup and mild ignition are both highly desirable traits. The former enables you to shoot higher pressure loads. The latter improves your SDs.

 

[Scott Harris]

... FWIW, on the misfires, when I pulled down the loads, the powder was yellowed/scorched near the flashhole. Some heat got to the powder, just not enough. The hangfires were interesting though. It was a long hang, then fire.....
.....

How do you clean your cases? Wet with soap? Yellow powder is not scorched powder, it's been destroyed by citric acid left over from traces of soap in the case. The primer is an explosive....either it fires or it doesn't fire. Your problem is contaminated powder. Almost all soap has citric acid. Do an experiment, pour a tiny bit of soapy water in your primed case and then put powder and a bullet on it. Uncork it after a day and then check out how congealed and yellow your powder has become...you'll need to chip it out. Also, notice the yellow is at the bottom of the case. It's because that's where the soap residue settles. That's also where the primer flame is unsuccessfully trying to ignite the dead powder. The yellow stuff forms a nice inert firewall. . Sometimes, the cartridge will go off, but it will be delayed ignition. That can be from powder that is contaminated but not bad enough to completely prevent ignition. Note that Lemishine is highly concentrated citric acid...far worse than soap. It only takes tiny traces of citric acid to cause problems in my experience.

I fought this stuff for years and progressively used less and less soap and completely eliminated lemishine. The 100% solution required doing a short cycle with baking soda to neutralize the acid. In the end, I was able to eliminate these problems, but the amount of effort forced me to rethink the cleaning regimine. I reflected on how much time was being wasted with wet tumbling and decided to switch over to dry tumbling with plain corn cob media. Soooo much easier and no more problems.

 

[mao0720]

I just went back downstairs to shoot some primers on empty cases to see if there was an audible/ visual flash difference between the Wolf, CCI #41 and the CCI BR-4 primers. I loaded 3 of each on empty cases and shot them through my rifle. I believe I have found my problem and it may not be the primers. When I first put this rifle together I had an HS precision stock off of a Rem 700 LTR (miss that stock). Now it has one of the new Magpul Hunter 700 stocks and DBM setups. Several times during the primer test, I would pull the trigger, feel it move, but the firing pin would not release. I could then squeeze the trigger harder to get the firing pin to release. Upon further inspection, I found that the trigger shoe would just barely contact the back of the trigger guard towards the end of the trigger travel. I quick few strokes with a file to clearance the trigger guard and now, no contact, and no hung up firing pin. I still plan on testing primers next week, but I would just about bet that the cocking piece was dragging on the sear because the sear couldn't drop out of the way completely due to the trigger/ guard interference.
As to the audible/ Visual primer tests. Wolf are much weaker than either CCI #41s or CCI BR-4s. The wolf gave a low pop, and barely a puff of smoke out of the 22" barrel. The #41s shot a large column of sparks out the barrel, and the BR-4s shot a slightly smaller spark out the barrel. I video'd the test and I will try to post it later.