Question for F-Class folks: Best shape for bag rider?

[Erud]

I recently acquired a nice .223 rifle that my wife will be using to dabble in a few Mid Range FTR matches this summer. It's in a traditional prone stock, so obviously it does not track straight back in recoil. I have an idea for a rear bag rider, and a friend who is pretty handy with machine work, so we should be able to improve on it without spending much on it.

My question is in regards to the shape of the bag rider itself. I am thinking a polished piece of 1" aluminum tube would be good for this, but then again, I am a dumb sling shooter who knows next to nothing about f-class. Is there a preferred shape for a bag rider system, or is a 1" round tube as good as anything? I'm sure some of you guys have some real-world experience with this. I recall that I had a bag rider for an Eliseo tube stock that was roughly 1/2" wide with squared corners at the point where it contacted the bag. I never got around to actually using it, so I have no idea if that is a good design or not.

I'm not really in a position to re-stock this rifle at the moment, so just looking to make what we already have a little better for her. We have a Sinclair Gen II bipod for the front, so that should work for now. In all likelihood, she will probably shoot 3-4 matches max this year, and may or may not end up liking it. If she ends up getting bit by the shooting bug, we'll probably go crazy and build something purpose-built for f-class, but we aren't there yet.

Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Erik

 

[XTR]

Width of the rider and the width of your ears on the bag needs to match up, so decide on a bag then decide on your rider attachment.

This is F-TR, so unless you buy a Seb Joypod you want about 3/8 to 1/2 inch of drop to the toe so that you can adjust your up and down on the target by sliding the rifle in the bag.

 

[dkhunt14]

Width of the rider and the width of your ears on the bag needs to match up, so decide on a bag then decide on your rider attachment.

This is F-TR, so unless you buy a Seb Joypod you want about 3/8 to 1/2 inch of drop to the toe so that you can adjust your up and down on the target by sliding the rifle in the bag.

Is FTR shot off a BIpod only? Matt

 

[Steve Blair]

Is FTR shot off a BIpod only? Matt

It can be shot with a sling, Matt, but most people prefer the more stable bipod. F-Open is usually shot from a rest but can also be shot from bipod or sling.

 

[Ringostar]

Erik, I know a couple of the open guys in Wi use a 1.5" aluminum bag rider on their stocks. With an Ftr set up you will want a slight taper for fine elevation adjustment on target. Also it will all have to make weight. If 1" is what you have available, then find a rear bag to fit it. I don't think that you'll have to much recoil/tracking issue with a 223.

 

[Erud]

Thanks for the input guys. I had not considered the need for a taper/angle for elevation adjustments, so I'm glad I asked. I will definitely be paying more attention the the f-class rigs at the matches I shoot this season to get a better handle on how things are done. Keith, I'm sure I'll see you around plenty! Will be shooting with my machinist buddy tomorrow, so hopefully we can get some sort of a plan together.

Thanks again!

 

[rmist]

Once you complete your set up please post a couple pictures. Would like to see how you do it.
Thanks

Matt...also F TR is limited to 223 and 308 only !! F class you can use almost anything under 8mm cal bullets.

 

[Mozella]

As others have pointed out, you probably don't want a stock that tracks straight back for F/TR. Mine doesn't and I wouldn't want it to. Why not do some shooting with the stock you have without any modification? It might be just fine. If you, or your wife, have time to spare, spend it on learning about reading the wind. That's the devil in F/TR.

 

[Erud]

As others have pointed out, you probably don't want a stock that tracks straight back for F/TR. Mine doesn't and I wouldn't want it to. Why not do some shooting with the stock you have without any modification? It might be just fine. If you, or your wife, have time to spare, spend it on learning about reading the wind. That's the devil in F/TR.

Thanks for that. We have been shooting it as is, and will be shooting it again today. It is a very accurate rifle, but it jumps high off target in recoil, and requires a complete positional rebuild after each shot. As noted, it is in a prone stock for shooting NRA conventional prone, which is what I shoot. When shooting from a sling, the shape of the rear end of the stock has no effect on how the rifle recoils. Believe me when I tell you that this type of stock is not ideal for f-class, and modifying it for a bag rider will improve its performance for this task. We do not have a lot of time to spare, both of us work, and I have 42 days of rifle matches on my calendar this year, starting in 3 weeks. I am ok at reading wind, and she is a brand new shooter, so that skill will come as she shoots more - like it does for everyone. I do not believe that improving her rifle so that it is better suited for the type of shooting she is using it for will hinder her progress at learning to read wind.

Rmist, I will be sure to post pics of the finished product once we get it together.

Thanks,
Erik

 

[Alexander-M]

Erik,

On the other hand . . .
I did not like the slope of my Savage 12 stock, so I made a bag rider that was parallel with the front of the stock - see pictures below. Notice that I did not have a joystick bipod (Joypod) at the time, but a more standard bipod (Duplin). Even though my rear bag is rather hard, I had no problem doing fine elevation adjustments by squeezing it, and this allowed me to return the rifle to the same position each time, which I found easier than sliding the rifle back and forth for elevation adjustment. But then again, that is just my preference.

My new (as of last year) F-T/R rifle stock already had no slope, and I really like it; but then again, I do have a Joypod for it, which for me works out best.

Savage 12 F-T/R modified stock.

Savage 12 F-T/R with Duplin bipod.

Kelbly Panda action + Kelbly GRS X-Eater stock + Krieger barrel + Seb Joypod

Good luck with whatever you choose - your wife will definitely enjoy F-T/R.

Nando

 

[Erud]

Nando,
Great post, thanks for the pics. The rear of her stock is shaped similarly to your Savage, and it looks like you solved the problem in much the same way I am thinking, but with different materials. That gives me some hope that we are going the right direction! We also have a very similar rear bag, but without the material on the ears. Is that something you added yourself, or did the bag come that way? Look like that would definitely help the rifle slide better than it does on bare leather.

That Kelbly stock on your new rifle is beautiful!

 

[Alexander-M]

Eric,

Do a Google search and you will find several offerings for bag riders - some made of plastic, others aluminum. I made mine before I realized that they were available commercially. Search for images and you will see all types.

That is the Silver Material that Protektor offers, and it is extremely slick. I found them (Protektor) to be very nice to work with - give them a call, and they will make a bag exactly as you want, including the spacing between the ears, materials, type of fill, etc. I ordered my first two bags already filled, but filled the last one myself with playground sand (from Home Depot), and although not necessarily easy to do, I can control how much sand and how hard the bag is.

Nando (Alex)

 

[Dos XX]

If the gun is jumping, probably to the left, during recoil, try working on body position behind the bipod. It will be obvious when you find the right place as the gun will come straight back. Once you find it it is a matter of duplicating it.

Both my F/TR rifles have an angled toe. I know some people that shoot a parallel toe, but I never have. I use the angle for small elevation adjustment. Some squeeze to do that. I'm not a squeezer. I can't hold the squeeze steady enough.

That said, I am not using a Joypod. If I were, I would consider a parallel toe.

 

[avidflyer]

If the gun is jumping, probably to the left, during recoil, try working on body position behind the bipod. It will be obvious when you find the right place as the gun will come straight back. Once you find it it is a matter of duplicating it.

Both my F/TR rifles have an angled toe. I know some people that shoot a parallel toe, but I never have. I use the angle for small elevation adjustment. Some squeeze to do that. I'm not a squeezer. I can't hold the squeeze steady enough.

That said, I am not using a Joypod. If I were, I would consider a parallel toe.

What bipod are you using?

 

[Dos XX]

Scott,

I use the Flex Bipod.

 

[Erud]

Ok, my buddy finished the bag rider, and I got it back yesterday. Turned out better than I had envisioned. Being the smart sort of guy that he is, he made it so that the rod can be reversed to either be parallel to the fore end, or have a slight taper(3º, I think). I thought that was pretty clever. He also made 2 sets of holes so the rod can be attached just below the bottom of the toe of the stock(as in the pics) or about 3/8" lower. I can't think of a reason why she would use the lower set of holes, so initially I was thinking we'd probably just have him cut the bottom off and re-contour it to match the profile of the rod. After playing around with it a little, it seems like the part protruding below the rod may actually be a good thing, as it provides a positive stop against the bag to push the rifle forward into after recoil. We'll see how she likes that part after she shoots with it again next weekend. Here are a few pics.

Flat:

Taper:

On bag: