Depending on how I look at how my first range session with my Savage 110 in 25-06 it could be called a waste of ammo or a good day at the range in disguise. What I'm talking about it how my "groups" look like. The scope on the rifle is a BSA that has mill-dot cross hairs and MOA turrets. It also is mounted on what I'm guessing is 20MOA pic rail which sits on top of the scope mounts that come with the rifle. All of which makes me completely loose a cheek weld. That is what I ended up labeling why my groups suffered. Initially however it was my fault for messing with the zoom on the SFP scope. I had it on a 10X and my first shot created a little half moon at the very top of the paper once I thought it was the zoom I raised it to 20X and shot only "one mill" high. So i cranked it all the way up to 24X and that should have solved the problem. But since the only contestant thing about my shooting the rifle was mostly the trigger pull and the gun went bang well... The only way I can derive pleasure from this trip is to be thankful that this problem was caught now instead of after I gut shoot or miss a deer while hunting. I hope to remedy the cheek weld problem by getting a pad to raise the comb height. Although it may take a couple of weeks before I can spare the cash for it.
A waste of ammo. Well...
- Thread starter John O.
- Start date
John, is there a specific question here? There seems to be a lot of variables to your post. You mentioned an arcing group but didn't mention a group size, distance, number of shots, how the shots were fired or the type of ammo used.
For a new rifle one might initially bore sight at 100 yards and shoot some 3-5 shot groups while shooting off a fixed reset like a Caldwell BR w/ a similar rear bag. The half moon pattern you mentioned is typically of sympathetic moments often caused by breathing and heart beat. It's common to see a pattern like this in high power 3-position shooting.
Reducing the group size factors in the fundamentals of marksmanship (such as trigger control and breathing), proper equipment setup and ammunition. This is why a rest can be handy because it reduces the variable of the shooter. As for improving the shooter I find that small bore (.22LR rim fire) practice has helped me make the biggest improvements, probably just because I'm able to fire more rounds.
For a new rifle one might initially bore sight at 100 yards and shoot some 3-5 shot groups while shooting off a fixed reset like a Caldwell BR w/ a similar rear bag. The half moon pattern you mentioned is typically of sympathetic moments often caused by breathing and heart beat. It's common to see a pattern like this in high power 3-position shooting.
Reducing the group size factors in the fundamentals of marksmanship (such as trigger control and breathing), proper equipment setup and ammunition. This is why a rest can be handy because it reduces the variable of the shooter. As for improving the shooter I find that small bore (.22LR rim fire) practice has helped me make the biggest improvements, probably just because I'm able to fire more rounds.
Also for cheek pad, I recently purchased one of these and was fairly pleased with it:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/144343/
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/144343/
Lapua40X
California Hunter Education Instructor
John, I admit to being just a little confused concerning your specific question (if it's intended to be a question) but I'd like to suggest that the problem affecting your cheek weld may simply be scope height and it might be resolved by using a different set of rings that lower the scope's position above the rail. That will, of course, depend on the size of the bell for the objective lens but it may be worth consideration.
Is it a new rifle or used? type ammo? Clean bore or dirty? Stock screws tight? Shooting technique? Like everyone says. Need more specifics.
Don't be quick to blame the rifle. I bought a new Savage 110FP 20 or so yrs ago and the first box of ammo what what I found at the hardware store. and the groups were embarrassing to say the least. After working up a handload it will easily shoot 1/2MOA. It's a rare thing for a Savage bolt rifle in good condition to be a bad shooter.
Don't be quick to blame the rifle. I bought a new Savage 110FP 20 or so yrs ago and the first box of ammo what what I found at the hardware store. and the groups were embarrassing to say the least. After working up a handload it will easily shoot 1/2MOA. It's a rare thing for a Savage bolt rifle in good condition to be a bad shooter.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post. Changing the scope zoom should not have any influence on the POA vs POI. That is to say, if you keep everything else the same including your aim point, changing the scope magnification should not change where the bullet hits the target. Are you saying the point of impact of your gun changes when you change the scope magnification setting (zoom)?
Agreed... it's all over the place.
OP, try to narrow your focus a bit, and you'll get lots of good advice, once everybody knows what you're looking for.
"Caught now, before hunting"?
You say that almost like you somehow could've gone hunting, to potentially gut shoot a deer, before ever sighting in your rifle.
If the parallax is out of the scope, cheek weld doesn't matter. Lot's of BR shooters have their scopes inches above stock. If you are not using the center crosshair of the scope the Point of aim changes when changing power except on one power where it's calibrated to stay. That power is usually marked on the scope by a dot or different colored power setting. Matt
billlarson
"Hold Into The Wind"
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
"Just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless."
Thomas A. Edison
"Just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless."
Thomas A. Edison
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
John O,
If I'm reading you correctly, you wrote this was your FIRST range trip with that rifle. SO I'm reading it that you haven't tested or shot with that rifle before. If that's correct, I believe you need to break in that barrel before you even try to determine what load(s) she likes or doesn't like. I'm a firm believer that a rifle that has at least 40 - 50 rds rds down the tube, is more likely to give a much better read on your load than a rifle that's brand new and hasn't been broken in. And like the others have stated, there's no such thing as a wasted trip to the range. Your rifle will tell you many things if you are open to listen to her and if nothing else, learning her likes, dislikes and quirks, is always a learning session. Good luck and have fun!
Alex
If I'm reading you correctly, you wrote this was your FIRST range trip with that rifle. SO I'm reading it that you haven't tested or shot with that rifle before. If that's correct, I believe you need to break in that barrel before you even try to determine what load(s) she likes or doesn't like. I'm a firm believer that a rifle that has at least 40 - 50 rds rds down the tube, is more likely to give a much better read on your load than a rifle that's brand new and hasn't been broken in. And like the others have stated, there's no such thing as a wasted trip to the range. Your rifle will tell you many things if you are open to listen to her and if nothing else, learning her likes, dislikes and quirks, is always a learning session. Good luck and have fun!
Alex
My intent of this post is to keep those who might be following my progress up to date.
If you want the whole story I would suggest looking up my previous posts because I'd rather not rehash it right now. Please don't laugh too hard at primer deactivation it was a stupid question that ended up being a comedy post.
I've heard this a few times all ready perhaps it was the zoom forcing me to be better aligned with the scope.
Again I would suggest looking up my past threads."Caught now, before hunting"?
You say that almost like you somehow could've gone hunting, to potentially gut shoot a deer, before ever sighting in your rifle.
Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
While you're at solving cheek weld, consider making sure your scope is truly parallax free (i.e. "focused") on the target. Don't assume the target looking in sharp focus (not blurry) means it is parallax free, and never trust the AO yardage marks , e.g. "100" yds, etc. The only way to verify parallax is eliminated is to set the rifle on a steady hands-free rest, reticle aligned near some mark on the target, and move your eye around behind the eyepiece looking for any apparent reticle movement relative to said mark. If the reticle seems to move around on the target, any inconsistent cheek weld (and eye placement behind the eyepiece) will result in a lot of frustration on your part trying to shoot decent groups.
Adjust the AO until parallax is eliminated, and moving your eye behind the ocular does not make the reticle seem to move. If the target then looks blurry, adjust the eyepiece focus alone until snap glances (not a steady stare) at at the target seem focused. Then you will have both the objective and ocular focused on the reticle plane. And as "dkhunt14" said, cheek weld won't matter - as much, anyway (it still affects your ability to relax and get off a good shot.)
Your comment about being thankful made me laugh. I once worked with a guy who announced he had drawn a coveted antelope tag, and wanted advice on how to proceed. He had his dad's old 30-06 with a scope. I asked him how he had it sighted in. "Oh, it don't need it, it's always worked just fine." How long had it been since he tried to hit anything with it? "Oh, many years. I've been dragging it around with me from town to town a long time." Would he please allow me to take it out and sight it in with him? "Nope, I'm just going hunting, thanks just the same." At work the next week I asked him how he had done. Looking sheepish, he said "Well, I should have listened to you. I shot up a a box of ammo at several antelope fairly close by, and never so much as scared one. I have no idea where those bullets landed."
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