Learning the Trade: Any Thoughts?

[Bully]

I'm an enthusiast.

I really enjoy firearms. I like everything about them. I like the aesthetics, the function, the recoil, the technology... All of it. As such, I would like to learn more about building them. Rifles in particular. At this point, I would mostly be looking to learn the machining aspect of everything. How to indicate, cut, thread, etc. I have a great gunsmith nearby however he's a bit too busy to take something like me on especially given that I am, at this time, an enthusiastic hobbyist and nothing more.

I know that I can(and i have) watch YouTube to my heart's content, however I also realize that nothing beats hands on.

I'm in northern NJ, not exactly a hotspot for firearms. I've looked and there are no weekend courses for machining that I can find. I also have a family and work more than full time so school is out for me.

Any thoughts on how I can learn more?

 

[hogpatrol]

If there are some in your area, check the vo-tech high schools. I took welding and aviation mechanics on Saturdays at one. They may have adult education/non credit classes available. Good Luck on your quest for more knowledge.

 

[Ggmac]

I'm from Pequannock orriginally , what town are you from . There use to be some great vo tech schools . Pm me if you don't want to put your location out . You've got one of the best gunsmiths in the bench rest field , Bob from the shooters corner , in lake Hopatcong .
Gary

 

[Bully]

Hey Gary.
I'm in Bergen County, right next door to Paramus.

Bob is awesome. Not sure if he'd be willing or have the time to take on a hobbyist. Always worth a call I guess.

 

[BigBlueandGoldie]

Buy a mill and have at it! A lot of us are in the same boat (family, work, etc.), but if you don't have time to be taught, then you have to teach yourself.

 

[Ggmac]

Check with some small mom an pop gun shops , if any still exist in NJ . Volunteer to work ,if they trust you , you may have a shot to learn the basics . The older the shop the better . Expect to clean floors for awhile .
Good luck , Gary
Ask Bob if he knows of any old timers that need an assistant , free . It pays to be humble .

 

[savagedasher]

I would take a corse at a trade school or on at a Jr. College . Larry

 

[hogpatrol]

Check with some small mom an pop gun shops , if any still exist in NJ . Volunteer to work ,if they trust you , you may have a shot to learn the basics . The older the shop the better . Expect to clean floors for awhile .
Good luck , Gary
Ask Bob if he knows of any old timers that need an assistant , free . It pays to be humble .

My first day in my first shop, I was handed a broom, and an obscenity laced instruction after which I was tongue lashed with another stream of obscenities on the quality of my sweeping. My self esteem hasn't been the same since. I did learn a tremendous amount over the next few years though.

 

[Bully]

Check with some small mom an pop gun shops , if any still exist in NJ . Volunteer to work ,if they trust you , you may have a shot to learn the basics . The older the shop the better . Expect to clean floors for awhile .
Good luck , Gary
Ask Bob if he knows of any old timers that need an assistant , free . It pays to be humble .

I don't expect to be paid. I'm fine with it. I just want to learn the basics.

 

[hdskip]

As a machining teacher at a votech school, I'd advise a basic machining class and communicate with the instructor what your goals are. Most that I know will be sensitive to those goals. People take those classes for many reasons. Many of my adult students are like yourself and just want to learn for a specific reason not necessarily to be a machinist. For a couple hundred dollars and 35-40 hours of time you should be able safely run a lathe and a milling machine. Trial and error will be a lot more costly than that not to mention the aggravation factor. Good luck to you in your efforts.
Gary

 

[Ggmac]

Good attitude . I realize NJ isn't the way it was when I left (1973) but I guess nothing is . I was fortunate enough to grow up in my uncles gun shop on rt 23 . Mind you ,I was torn between his shop , my grandfathers paint store , my other uncles swimming park ( MacDonalds Lake ) and my dads Nursery , all next to each other on Rt 23 . But once I got my first 22 , girls in bathing suits and a good day playing with rifles was a toss up !
If you lived down here in S Fl ,I'd take you on , I'm old school , retired and still have the love and passion that you express .
Gary

 

[Ggmac]

In the mean time , some good old books on the trade are around , they may be , ok are out dated , but will give you a basic understanding of the necessary skills and equipment needed . The books explain how to MAKE the basic tool you will need . Usually with basic tools , such as ,grinders , chisels , drill press , files , vice and ELBO Grease .

 

[shortgrass]

Design & function are where the "basics" are. From there, you have a better understanding of"why". Fitting a barrel to the typical bolt action is straight forward machining tasks. The 'basics' of machining refined. I guess the fasination comes from the ever continuing loss of manufacturing in this country. Fewer and fewer experience it first hand so the mystique gets applied. OOOOOOed and AWWWWWWed buy what a computer connected to an electric motor can do. There's much, much more to 'machining' than just making chips. Speeds and feeds, tool geometry, all the different set-ups that are possible, which operation first? in a 'part' that'll require multiple operations to complete (like the extractor cut, or cone breeching).. It goes on and on.

 

[Larryh128]

+1 on Shortgrass, there is no short cut to learning machining. It require lots of practice, I was once in your position, but fortuneately I live in an area that abounds with top flite machinists that don't mind a phone call asking how to set this up etc. What are friends for right? Even a retired machinist in Florida can provide expertise over the phone once you learn the basics. Many people think gunsmithing is filing & whittling on wood (which there can be some) but the majority of the work is precision machining. Round inside of round, inside of round.

 

[shortgrass]

Many people think gunsmithing is filing & whittling on wood (which there can be some) but the majority of the work is precision machining. Round inside of round, inside of round.

I guess that depends. I make much more doing stock work (wood stocks), repairing a higher end double guns, or slow rust bluing. I've been machining since I graduated high school in '74, so I'm no 'newbee' at that. Just look at the forums,,,, seems anyone who can afford a lathe can chamber a rifle barrel these days. Few care to work on a high end double gun. Many can't figure out how to get the (%*# thing apart, let alone back together without leaving 'evidence' that they were there. You think machining takes patients? Most won't even attempt stock making from a pre-inlet (just look at all the complaints that get posted, because "it'll take a lot more work than I think it should"). Not many will take on re-soldering loose ribs on a classic double and then rust bluing them. True 'gunsmithing' is much more than machine work. Your a machinist, a repairman. a metal finisher and a wood worker. To a guy can do those things, and do them well, fitting a barrel to an action, pinning on a Jewell trigger and glassing that into a McMillian really ain't much!

 

[Ggmac]

Larry , do you live down here in Florida ?
Gary

 

[Larryh128]

No, Michigan. Agreed that no one works on double guns much including me. A friend just built a 500 double rifle starting with a side by side shotgun, sleeving barrels etc.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A double rifle is something ive always wanted for some reason

 

[highlife]

I guess that depends. I make much more doing stock work (wood stocks), repairing a higher end double guns, or slow rust bluing. I've been machining since I graduated high school in '74, so I'm no 'newbee' at that. Just look at the forums,,,, seems anyone who can afford a lathe can chamber a rifle barrel these days. Few care to work on a high end double gun. Many can't figure out how to get the (%*# thing apart, let alone back together without leaving 'evidence' that they were there. You think machining takes patients? Most won't even attempt stock making from a pre-inlet (just look at all the complaints that get posted, because "it'll take a lot more work than I think it should"). Not many will take on re-soldering loose ribs on a classic double and then rust bluing them. True 'gunsmithing' is much more than machine work. Your a machinist, a repairman. a metal finisher and a wood worker. To a guy can do those things, and do them well, fitting a barrel to an action, pinning on a Jewell trigger and glassing that into a McMillian really ain't much!

I too agree, I was shock of how many smiths wouldnt even take my flattop stock and do the full-inletting. I was told send it back to McMillian and have it pre-inletted.
Richard

 

[hogpatrol]

A double rifle is something ive always wanted for some reason

For those elephant charges at fifteen paces maybe?