Remember this when looking at your equipment

[tenring]

My Hall action 6ppc had about 20K rounds thru it, thought t might be time to change springs. Could not remove the old spring, had to take it to a smith, and even he had problem with it , but got it done. Doesn't show any improvement with the new spring.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Where did you get the spring for the Barnard?

MT Guns. They are still importing Barnards into the states.

 

[Alexander-M]

The valve springs of an internal combustion, four cycle engine compress and relax every other revolution. In 12,000 miles (about a year's worth of driving for many people) at an average speed of 40 mph at 2,500 RPM, a valve spring will undergo: (12,000mi/40mph=300hr; 300hrX60min/h=18000min; 2500rpmX18000mi=45,000,000 revs; 45,000,000/2= 22,500,000 compression cycles. How many cars do you know of that have over 100,000 miles and never had the valve springs changed?

Is the firing pin spring subject to a more harsh environment than a valve spring? It would appear that if the manufacturer uses the proper spring steel, there will not be a need to change the firing pin spring in a lifetime.

Just my 2¢

Nando

 

[Scott Harris]

... if the manufacturer uses the proper spring steel, there will not be a need to change the firing pin spring in a lifetime.

Nando

and therein lies the problem, you are assuming good spring steel is being used when that is not the case with certain manufacturers, both factory and custom. Remington is top of the list. Their springs get weak sitting on the shelf. I've checked brand new actions with springs that were 19lbs....supposed to be 24 according to their specs.

Don't know about auto valve springs, but rifle springs need to maintain a specific strength for reliable ignition. The spring might be plenty strong enough to ignite the cartridge, but you'll see SD/ES climb when it gets to a certain weakness. Anything less than 20 lbs has definitely caused me problems in Remingtons & clones. Some manufacturers have gone to extra strength springs to guard against this problem, but that has it's own drawbacks. The real answer is quality materials as you alude to. I really like Wolff springs!

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I haven't the equipment to test springs, but I estimate that the removed spring is nearly identical to the new one.

On the other hand, the new spring was inexpensive and the old one isn't going anywhere - makes a backup in case of a broken spring.

 

[Alexander-M]

Scott, Keith -

I concur with your comments.

Relating to those who have changed the firing pin spring because there were issues -

I wonder how many times, in the process of changing the spring, the crud that may have built up around the firing pin and spring was the actual culprit? This crud can definitely impede proper functioning of the spring, and maybe just a good cleaning would solve the problem.

Nando

 

[cfreeman]

MT Guns. They are still importing Barnards into the states.

Thanks Mr. kieth. Your response prompted me to check Mac's website. I had looked there previously for springs, within the last few months and he looked like he was shutting the site down. Looks like John Whidden is going to be the guy for Barnard actions and accessories now, as that is what the MT Guns site says.

 

[bobinpa]

The spring might be plenty strong enough to ignite the cartridge, but you'll see SD/ES climb when it gets to a certain weakness. Anything less than 20 lbs has definitely caused me problems in Remingtons & clones. Some manufacturers have gone to extra strength springs to guard against this problem, but that has it's own drawbacks. The real answer is quality materials as you alude to. I really like Wolff springs!

Could someone explain how a weak spring can effect SD/ES? I've heard this before but nobody has ever been able to explain it clearly and I can't figure this one out. I can understand how a spring effects lock time which could effect group size, but I don't follow SD/ES. To me SD/ES can only be effected by what the cartridge is made up of itself. Powder charge, neck tension etc....

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If you have a bathroom scale and a set of 1/4" drive deep well sockets you have the equipment to check your firing pin spring

 

[Keith Glasscock]

If you have a bathroom scale and a set of 1/4" drive deep well sockets you have the equipment to check your firing pin spring

Thanks Dusty!

I checked the old spring against a second new one I have. The old one registered 28.95 lbs at my compression amount. The new one was 29.2 lbs. I guess I can confidently keep the old one as a backup.

I was using a small gap between the sockets as my reference. This was not a precision operation so I'd not put any weight into the small reading difference.

On the other hand, I've had absolutely no problems with ignition on that rifle so this was an insurance replacement.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have seen springs lose up to 1/2 inch in a year. The new one is 1/2 inch longer. If the spring gets shorter it is loosing power. Matt

 

[LHSmith]

I was taught by my BR mentors to always store the gun with the spring in the fired position. Even doing this, I change my springs on my Panda's every two years. I put the old ones in my Rem.700 hunting guns. More and more, shooters and smiths who specialize in competition are finding out the fire-control system has been hugely over-looked when accuracy seems to fall-off, and also on occasion from the the get-go on brand new actions.

 

[dixieppc]

I really like Wolff springs!

Scott, I went on the Wolff site and checked out Rem 700 SA springs. They offer 3, a 24 lb matching the OEM poundage and then a 28 lb and a 32 lb.

What are the benefits of going with more poundage than the 24 lb OEM poundage... If any?

Regards,
Thomas

 

[dkhunt14]

Scott, Keith -

I concur with your comments.

Relating to those who have changed the firing pin spring because there were issues -

I wonder how many times, in the process of changing the spring, the crud that may have built up around the firing pin and spring was the actual culprit? This crud can definitely impede proper functioning of the spring, and maybe just a good cleaning would solve the problem.

Nando

I keep my firing pin clean and dry. I know crud or dirt isn't the issue. I have seen new springs make a difference. I don't think you can compare a valve spring to a firing pin spring. The Valve spring is shorter, made of way heavier coils and much stronger. Probably even a different material. If you lost 10 pounds on a valve spring you probably would never notice. If you lost 10 pounds on a firing pin spring you will notice. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

Scott, I went on the Wolff site and checked out Rem 700 SA springs. They offer 3, a 24 lb matching the OEM poundage and then a 28 lb and a 32 lb.

What are the benefits of going with more poundage than the 24 lb OEM poundage... If any?

Regards,
Thomas

The more pounds the spring has, the harder the bolt lift is. Matt

 

[dixieppc]

The more pounds the spring has, the harder the bolt lift is. Matt

Thanks Matt. That I had assumed and also a major negative as a benchrest shooter (upsets the rifle on the rest). However I would still like to know the benefit of going with more poundage, if any.

Best Regards,
Thomas

 

[BIGMAC]

Thanks Matt. That I had assumed and also a major negative as a benchrest shooter (upsets the rifle on the rest). However I would still like to know the benefit of going with more poundage, if any.

Best Regards,
Thomas