What data to record

[mike a]

I shoot 308 and 243 to 500 yards. Been shooting for decades and only recently started to record data. Want to get the ( one shot kill ). Question is what data should I record and how to organize it to be helpful.

 

[JarheadAZ]

Record your load data by rifle. We periodically get away from the sport, and that's the data that fades quickest from active memory. Know your come-ups for the different distances. A stock table, printed for the current load from a confirmed Pejsa Spreadsheet, is on each rifle I use regularly, taped to the stock with clear packaging tape.

Forget about the one-shot hit/kill. It's either fiction or luck.

When you seek out the full story about those impossible shots, essentially all were zeroed and confirmed in advance, or luck; set up in preparation for a long range ambush. Perfect shots do not originate in books or calculators, they come from deep experience with that same rifle at a lot of distances, and under different conditions.

I'm sure somebody has pulled off a calculated first shot hit; the harder part is doing it with any consistency; much harder.

All rifles/shooters always experience dispersion. It never goes away, and because of it, the perfect shot becomes a crapshoot. This is why rifle matches require a bunch of shots.

While I put my faith in the above, I've also been experimenting for, and answering such questions as yours for decades. The expnece confirms that there is no shortcut, no secret trick,no infallible calculation or reliable go-to that will serve in place of solid skills and wind experience at the long distances. Each shot is its own problem to solve, and the solutions are found in consistent performance and the confidence it brings.

Wish I could make it easier for you, but it just isn't.

Greg

 

[mike a]

Record your load data by rifle. We periodically get away from the sport, and that's the data that fades quickest from active memory. Know your come-ups for the different distances. A stock table, printed for the current load from a confirmed Pejsa Spreadsheet, is on each rifle I use regularly, taped to the stock with clear packaging tape.

Forget about the one-shot hit/kill. It's either fiction or luck.

When you seek out the full story about those impossible shots, essentially all were zeroed and confirmed in advance, or luck; set up in preparation for a long range ambush. Perfect shots do not originate in books or calculators, they come from deep experience with that same rifle at a lot of distances, and under different conditions.

I'm sure somebody has pulled off a calculated first shot hit; the harder part is doing it with any consistency; much harder.

All rifles/shooters always experience dispersion. It never goes away, and because of it, the perfect shot becomes a crapshoot. This is why rifle matches require a bunch of shots.

While I put my faith in the above, I've also been experimenting for, and answering such questions as yours for decades. The expnece confirms that there is no shortcut, no secret trick,no infallible calculation or reliable go-to that will serve in place of solid skills and wind experience at the long distances. Each shot is its own problem to solve, and the solutions are found in consistent performance and the confidence it brings.

Wish I could make it easier for you, but it just isn't.

Greg

Well, thanx for nothing. Just kidding. I didn't really expect to be handed the magic bullet, or chart. I shoot more than hunt. Guess I get that my jarhead Wimbledon cup winner dad, 1958. I was 82nd airborne. i shoot positions mostly and prone more mostly. My BFF is a howa thumbhole varminter w/ Leupold vx3 4.5x14x50 varminter reticle. It's truly a 1/2 moa gun. .243. My last 200+ shots prone at 500 are 55% hits on a 7 in paper plate. You did mention that nasty four letter word (wind). That's where the rest went. When I'm not shooting I'm talking about it. I kill coyotes. I hunt accuracy. Thanx for you input

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'll go the other way from what Greg is saying. If you are shooting a sound rifle system (ammo counts as part of it), first shot hit/kill on game animals is not that big of a deal from 500 yards. Too many F/TR 308 shooters are able to score first sighter 10's and X's with regularity to convince me otherwise.

Yes the cold bore shot goes in a different hole than the later shots, but it is predictable with a good rifle.

I would keep track of the following:
Load (duh)
Altitude above sea level
Temperature
Wind direction and velocity
Mirage intensity
First-round elevation for a center hit
First round windage for a center hit
Subsequent impact changes (does it move up, or up and right, etc)

Over time, you will develop the ability to use your notes and gain a better likelihood of a first shot hit.

 

[memilanuk]

All the above is true... but I will say that I've seen people (top level competitive shooters) get surprised (very, very surprised) by the wind, even on a KD range with flags, etc.

Keeping good notes is a great idea. Also spend some time with a ballistics calculator like JBM to get a feel for what effects various changes you may see in the field (temp, wind speed/direction, declination, humidity) have at distance - and then go out and test those solutions - theory-to-practice, as they say.

Ultimately your trajectory data is fairly simple, and easy to calculate. Whats going on down range... may be less so, depending on the day and the location.

 

[JamesnTN]

First get your load where you want it. Then at every 100 yards know the drop at a given temp. Then from there you need to know your drop in 10* increments for every 100 yards. Yes you'll be out in the cold at 20* or colder shooting and recording bullet drop for each 100 yards and as temp rises 10* you will repeat the same stages. You need to do this in the temp span of when you plan to shoot or hunt. You will need to buy a good data log book to keep all these drops handy for each 10* in temp change.

Once you have all these records work on wind and then you'll need to work on shooting angles and different elevations. It's a lot of work and many rounds shot but if your goal is for that for sure one shot kill you have to do it.

 

[JarheadAZ]

OK; I can be wrong, so can anybody else, some a bunch less than myself. I've tried a lot of ways to 'Weather chart Mozart' my way into a first round hit. I've done it many times, but mostly, a lot less than half of the time; and I'm never gonna bet the farm on it.

For me, the issue is less about predictability or repeatability, and more about the random deviations in the factors we cannot exert an influence upon, or in a lot of cases, even quantify.

They all count, and like stacking tolerances, they often add and subtract without any reliable pattern.

There's some differences between hitting game, acing a Highpower target, and setting a new 1000yd BR record. Enough so, that I don't think in terms of 'a hit' as much as I think about defeating the specific target, which will differ in definition by each shooter's estimate.

I think the best we can do is to reduce our dispersion to a reliable degree, and then choose our targets with a mind to a better than middlin' chance to hit where we want it to go.

If I lack the required confidence in the shot, I try for a closer firing point. If I lack the confidence to drag the carcass out, I look for another quarry. If the quarry if shooting back, I find some cover and rethink the entire situation.

Greg

 

[mike a]

Greetings and happy new year. Guess I should introduce myself. i grew up with rifles. Dad was on usmc rifle team and won Wimbledon cup in 1958. Got my 1st rifle at around 10yrs old. 22 single shot T-bolt. I'm 56 now and have been a rifle shooter since. i currently have a Howa houge in 308 with Leupold vx2 3x9x40 w/ lr duplex. Super light rifle with skinny 20" barrel. Dont like it much. Other rifle Howa thumbhole varminter 243 w/ Leupold vx3 4.5x14x50 varminter reticle. Got lucky with it. Shots great. I hunt some and shoot a lot. Use to shoot bench for good zero and tight groups but now shooting position. Prone mostly. I have a good Leupold rangefinder and ballistic ae calculator on I-phone. I've used the big target method to get my true drops and adjusted scope power to match drops. The vx3 on 243 at about 12 power is dead on at 3,4 and 500yds. I'm recording weather and cold shot data, got notes up butt. Starting to see some patterns but still just can't seem to put it all together. Data cards, I have an idea of what they are. Can anyone recommend a printable version.