CCI 200 vs CCI 250 whats the difference?
- Thread starter mattri
- Start date
a lot of primers out there when going from standard to magnum, there is no difference in primer composition. the main difference is the thickness of the cup. the mags generally have a thicker cup and therefore can take hotter loads--more pressure. i cant speak for all primers and type. the cci 400 and 450s, wolf small rifle/ small rifle mag have different cup thicknesses with the same primer composition.
You shooting a .270 magnum cartridge?
Are you loading ammunition for use in -30F or colder conditions?
If answers to the above are "no", then I think you are way off base with your load formulations, and are likely pressure spiking your ammunition. Not a good thing, and unsafe for you and those who may be around when you fire your loads.
The large rifle magnum primer was invented in the 1950s as the means of reliable ignition for the .30-378 Weatherby, an experimental ctg at the time used by the Army to test maximum .30cal velocity. Until this time all H&H derived "magnums" were ignited using plain lg rifle primers.
Any component substitution in a handloading formula is potentially dangerous, until proven otherwise.
If you have handloaded magnum primers in a .270win, I would advise you to dissemble the ammunition, buy a Sierra or Hornady Loading Manual and start over; paying particular attention to the components used.
Just because the pressure spike you are undoubtedly generating hasn't damaged you or your rifle yet does not mean it never will. Buy a bullet puller and study-up on the subject before you handload again is my advice.
Are you loading ammunition for use in -30F or colder conditions?
If answers to the above are "no", then I think you are way off base with your load formulations, and are likely pressure spiking your ammunition. Not a good thing, and unsafe for you and those who may be around when you fire your loads.
The large rifle magnum primer was invented in the 1950s as the means of reliable ignition for the .30-378 Weatherby, an experimental ctg at the time used by the Army to test maximum .30cal velocity. Until this time all H&H derived "magnums" were ignited using plain lg rifle primers.
Any component substitution in a handloading formula is potentially dangerous, until proven otherwise.
If you have handloaded magnum primers in a .270win, I would advise you to dissemble the ammunition, buy a Sierra or Hornady Loading Manual and start over; paying particular attention to the components used.
Just because the pressure spike you are undoubtedly generating hasn't damaged you or your rifle yet does not mean it never will. Buy a bullet puller and study-up on the subject before you handload again is my advice.
There is not a single thing wrong with using a mag CCI 250 primer in any rifle cartridge that needs a large rifle primer if you work up the load from a start load watching for pressure signs. I have been hand loading for about 35 years and have used about all types of primers in working up loads for a single caliber. Just start low and work up. My 25-06 shoots it's best with CCI 250's and IMR 4350 with 117 Sierra bullets.
The mag primers most often have a little different propellant in them that a standard primer. This propellant burns with a longer flame so it will light ball powders or larger amounts of stick powder. Federal 215 are about the hottest Mag primer. They were made especially for Weatherby to light his large powder loads.
The mag primers most often have a little different propellant in them that a standard primer. This propellant burns with a longer flame so it will light ball powders or larger amounts of stick powder. Federal 215 are about the hottest Mag primer. They were made especially for Weatherby to light his large powder loads.
If a guy has to ask:
"Ok so 250s are magnums. I've been using them with good results in my .270. Just picked up some 200s for the .243, that sound about right?"
It tells me he ought to be consulting a decent loading manual and not flying by the seat of his pants or think some forum guru is giving him the straight skinny.
Too bad there is not a "Survival Handloading" manual which could give those who have to scrounge for components the answers they need. Most don't have to scrounge for primers. Why not eliminate one variable that might cause you Real Problems and stick to the conventional loading manual data?
How many guys shooting those Sako extractor altered Rem 700 bolt guns figured they were on top of their game until the extractor buried itself in their forehead? Most have been benchrest shooters who likely were pushing all the variables they could.
If I am ever down to my last 20 primers and all I have are magnum lg rifle, guess I will risk it. Until then I don't see the reward for the risk.
ETA: I always thought primers were comprised of cup, anvil, and pellet of a fulminate of mercury compound and contained no propellants?? If the priming compound was propellant it would not ignite when the anvil impacted it. Are there different compounds for each category of primers a manufacturer makes? Maybe, I don't know. Seem likely, but maybe all they need do is vary the percentage or amount of compound in the priming cup? That would make it easier to make and less expensive. Have never studied this, just used what works. Sierra and Hornady manuals contain more good information than I could ever completely absorb.
"Ok so 250s are magnums. I've been using them with good results in my .270. Just picked up some 200s for the .243, that sound about right?"
It tells me he ought to be consulting a decent loading manual and not flying by the seat of his pants or think some forum guru is giving him the straight skinny.
Too bad there is not a "Survival Handloading" manual which could give those who have to scrounge for components the answers they need. Most don't have to scrounge for primers. Why not eliminate one variable that might cause you Real Problems and stick to the conventional loading manual data?
How many guys shooting those Sako extractor altered Rem 700 bolt guns figured they were on top of their game until the extractor buried itself in their forehead? Most have been benchrest shooters who likely were pushing all the variables they could.
If I am ever down to my last 20 primers and all I have are magnum lg rifle, guess I will risk it. Until then I don't see the reward for the risk.
ETA: I always thought primers were comprised of cup, anvil, and pellet of a fulminate of mercury compound and contained no propellants?? If the priming compound was propellant it would not ignite when the anvil impacted it. Are there different compounds for each category of primers a manufacturer makes? Maybe, I don't know. Seem likely, but maybe all they need do is vary the percentage or amount of compound in the priming cup? That would make it easier to make and less expensive. Have never studied this, just used what works. Sierra and Hornady manuals contain more good information than I could ever completely absorb.
Here's a test someone did and results of primer differences. Looks like it's not a lab test but does show interesting results.
http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm
http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm
ssv1761982
Silver $$ Contributor
Another unscientific reply
I have a 788 in 22-250 and it shoots good with 38gr 760 and CCI 200, this is a mild load with 55gr bullets.
I tried the CCI 250 large rifle magnum primers just because I had a few. They caused a slightly sticky bolt and the accuracy was not as good. I never got around to reducing the powder and trying again.
I have a 788 in 22-250 and it shoots good with 38gr 760 and CCI 200, this is a mild load with 55gr bullets.
I tried the CCI 250 large rifle magnum primers just because I had a few. They caused a slightly sticky bolt and the accuracy was not as good. I never got around to reducing the powder and trying again.
The difference between large rifle standard and magnum primers is the composition and amount of primer material.
When I.E. Dupont first came out with 7828, the first truly slow magum powder, standard primers were not hot enough to reliably ignite a large quantity of that powder in the 7mm Remmag or .300 Winmag. The primer makers developed "hotter" primers with a lot more priming material with a little more spark material in the mix (briescance (spelling?). Federal was the first to develop a large magnum rifle primer.
Any time you substitute a large rifle magnum primer for a standard large rifle primer, you should back down the powder charge a good 10% and work your way up carefully. The magnum primers are hot enough to increase the burn rate of the powder and jump pressures.
I can't think of any reason to use magum primers in a mid-size case like a .243, your extreme velocity spread is liable to increase quite a bit. If you think you have igniton problems, use a warmer standard primer. The Winchester standard large rifle primer is quite a bit "hotter" than either the CCI or Federals.
When I.E. Dupont first came out with 7828, the first truly slow magum powder, standard primers were not hot enough to reliably ignite a large quantity of that powder in the 7mm Remmag or .300 Winmag. The primer makers developed "hotter" primers with a lot more priming material with a little more spark material in the mix (briescance (spelling?). Federal was the first to develop a large magnum rifle primer.
Any time you substitute a large rifle magnum primer for a standard large rifle primer, you should back down the powder charge a good 10% and work your way up carefully. The magnum primers are hot enough to increase the burn rate of the powder and jump pressures.
I can't think of any reason to use magum primers in a mid-size case like a .243, your extreme velocity spread is liable to increase quite a bit. If you think you have igniton problems, use a warmer standard primer. The Winchester standard large rifle primer is quite a bit "hotter" than either the CCI or Federals.
Since I always load my .243 Winnie Pooh HOT, I favor CCI 250 Primers, yet both CCI 200 and CCI 250 primers have a .270" thick cup. Both resist firing pin puncture well. The only problems I've found to date have been regarding SMALL RIFLE PRIMERS. LARGE RIFLE PRIMERS seem to have solved the primer puncture problem by using .027" metal cups. Cliffy
Flouncer
What the heck it works for me !!
Regarding the criticality (my invented word !!) of rifle primers, who, what is one to believe ? The Berger manual does not even state what primers are used. Go look. . . . . Berger does recommend Magnum primers for magnum loads .. . . Check !! And, if you follow Berger's method, as are all others, of starting low and working up, the extractor - forehead scenario becomes less of a probability. If we accept the wisdom and competence of the various authors of the First Edition, then the discussion above is a tie. 
"Magnum primers are made with more mixture compound in order to provide reliable ignition of larger volumes of powder. . . . . also have thicker cups to contain higher levels of pressure . . .. " Cheers, it's Monday !!
"Magnum primers are made with more mixture compound in order to provide reliable ignition of larger volumes of powder. . . . . also have thicker cups to contain higher levels of pressure . . .. " Cheers, it's Monday !!
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
Totally agree with this advice. In the Speer manual they seem to do a better job of picking primers based on powders used (and telling you what primers they used during the load development). And they are very consistent, specific powder get magnum primers. And in the 270 load data (per Speer #14) 760, H380, IMR 4831, H414, AA 3100, H1000, IMR 7828, were developed using magnum rifle primers.
Even in the small case 223 family, I have seen surprisingly large increases in velocity and pressure by changing to a CCI 41 primer from a Rem 7 1/2 primer (that is called a magnum primer about half the time).
Loaded in my 22-250 the difference is 100 fps between 200 and 250 primers
It really is Monday ... you replied to a thread from 2010!
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