.223 vs .243 for prairie dogs

[mattri]

Tried a search, sorry if this has been covered before.

Looking at a factory rifle for prairie dog shoots and target shooting. The majority of shots will be 300 yards or less with the occasional stretch. Am looking at the Rem 700 and Savage 12 at the moment, if anyone has another recommendation I'm all ears. From what I know at the moment it seems like:

.223
Pros:
A very common round with plenty of ammo choices and load data.
Capable of 300 yard accuracy, can be stretched some.
Very inexpensive to shoot.
Very little recoil, very quiet report.
Acceptable lethality for very small varmints.
Cons:
Very light bullet, prone to wind drift.
Lethality questionable on anything but the smallest varmints at extended range.
Cannot be used for hunting should the need arise.
Extended range range accuracy questionable.

.243:
Pros:
Another common round with excellent ammo choices and load data.
Excellent mid-long range accuracy and lethality.
Better wind bucking.
Can also be used to take larger varmints and deer with proper loads.
Cons:
More expensive to shoot.
Louder report, heavier recoil.
Overkill for small varmints?
Barrel life?

Will be reloading for either round, but like the option of readily available ammo at any retail outlet or mom and pop shop. I really like the .223 for it's ease of shooting and economy, but am concerned with it's ability to be effective at longer ranges. Also like the .243's longer range and ability to take larger game, but am concerned with barrel life when shooting rapidly in a dog town.
Anything I've missed? Any ideas/suggestions welcome, Matt.

 

[trentalan34]

You've pretty much summed up the pros and cons. I have a number of rifles in both of them. My savages in each shoot great. Depending on your frame size, the recoil of the 243 could become an issue after a really long day of shooting. I do most of my varmint and target shooting with the 223 because of expense and economy, but a 70 gr Nosler in a 243 sure does make an impression on a groundhog.

 

[mattri]

Thanks for the reply. Which Savages do you have chambered in these calibers?
What is a standard barrel life for a .243, .223? Thanks, Matt.

 

[trentalan34]

My most used 223 is the 12 FV. I bought it with the intention of replacing the plastic stock, but it shoots so well with it that I have just decided to use those funds elsewhere. The HS precision on my 10FCP is very nice. I am not at home right now, but I seem to remember my heavy barreled 243 to be a 12FV,but the Savage site doesn't list the 243 as one of the calibers chambered for this model).
As to barrel life, I am not a p-dog shooter and I have a number of rifles, so I don't put as many rounds down a tube as some others. I have a Savage sporter barrel in 243 that is over 2,000 rounds and still shoots well-certainly not benchrest accuracy, but it can muster a fairly frequent 1/4-1/2' group. My experience has been that it is hard to shoot out a 223. I have a RRA 24' varminter that my brother and I have put 5,000+ rounds through and it still shoots under 3/4' at 100 yards.
As a side note, almost all my Savages shoot bullets lighter than expected for the twist rate. I used to shoot the 40gr .224 Varminators,discontinued), but now I shoot the 45 gr Sierra Varminters with H335. The 243's shoot the 70gr Nosler and 60 gr Sierra HP very well with IMR 4895 or Varget. The 308 loves the 110 gr Sierra HP with Varget; I will try the 110 gr V-maxes soon. I had a pair of Savage 7mm Remingtons that also shot lighter bullets better.

 

[sdneil]

Trent-get a good heavy .223 and you will be happy. Work up a good PD load and you will have fun..243 good round but seeing the hits is harder due to recoil,seeing the hits is what its all about..223 is a lot cheaper to shoot,I have 3800 pluss rounds thru my one .223,she is not as accurate as it used to be,but still good enough for at least one more Dog trip this week.-------Neil G

 

[RJinTexas]

My vote is for the .243 I've shot thousands of rounds of both .223 & .243 over the past 10 years in the dog towns. I purchased a Savage model 12 BVSS with accu-trigger in .243 when they first came out. It shoot both 55gr and 70gr NBT extremely well. It didn't heat up at all with the 55gr bullets, many a day I'd shot 200 to 300 rounds through this rifle only stopping to run a couple of patches through it after firing 50 to 100 rounds. I had 2100 rounds on that rifle when one of my buddies wanted to purchase it. I informed him that he'd probably need to rebarrel it soon. He's put an additional 800 plus rounds down it the last two four day shoots and it's still drilling P-dogs out to 500yds. I personally prefer the .204 Ruger over a .223 as it shoot much flatter and buck the wind a little better. A .204 Ruger replaced my .223 but I think a 20 Tac or Practical may even be a better choice for P-dogs inside of 350yds. But if you can only have one dedicated varmint rifle and plan on shooting yotes and use it for white tails once in a while then purchase a .243 Win in a 9tw. If Savage doesn't offer it anymore then purchase a action and have Fred at SSS make you a barrel.

Good luck
RJ

 

[CPorter]

Either one will work. You don't have to stick with light bullets if you go with a fast twist barrel. The edge in ballistics appears to go to the .243 Win with a max BC of .585,115gr DTAC) compared to a .504 for a 90gr .224 Sierra.

 

[NorthFork]

I would get 223 and a 243 in a savage Because when you get in a good dog town you can heat a barrel up real fast. i shoot a 223 till it gets hot then i grab the 243.

 

[oldroper]

If most of your shot are 300yds or less get the 223 sure the barrel will heat up but you get more shot off before that happens vs using a 243. I shot a 243 and 243AI and I'm not about to use those rifle for the close in shots.

It hard to find that perfect varmit rifle when you start wanting to shoot LR varmits. Depending on conditions pass 300/400 I'll go to a heavier caliber and some of my rifles have brakes so I can see the hits @ LR.

You also have to look at how many time during the year you get to shoot PD also wanting the same rifle for target shooting. Might want to look at 223 with twist for the heavier bullets. Well good luck

 

[Steve Blair]

I agree with the multi-caliber approach. When we shoot crows, I take three rifles:

.223 Remington
.22-250 Remington
6mm Remington

I start with the .223 until the crows get a little smart, switch to the .22-250 until they get pretty smart and then get out the 6mm. When they catch on that I can hit them at 500 yards, and they move further, we take a break, have a soda and a sandwich until they get stupid again. Rinse, lather, repeat.

You should see the ball of feathers when you hit a crow with a 6mm 55g Nosler at 4010 muzzle velocity.

 

[shootsanything]

The .223 will surprise you. In '08 I went PD with both the .243Win and the .223,Mine is a CZ, with 1:9 twist). On the last day I uncased the .243 and set up on the furthest dogs I could find. With a little help from the guide I shot 44 out of 50,all the ammo I had for that gun) at 525 to 560 yards. This was in SD and yes the wind was blowing, hard but steady enough that I could pick conditions.

Later that day I kept running out of 'close' targets for my .223, so I would just move out to the next mound and shoot until all targets were still, and then move out further. Funny thing is, I ended back up on the mounds that I knew were in the 550 range and the .223 was still knocking them over. This was well past were I thought the .223 would be effective and I didn't intend to go there but was pleased with the result.

 

[songdogslayer]

My brother and I used to shoot exclusively .223 at prairie dogs. We handload for this task,and you will learn very early on in the game that if you intend to shoot 300 yard prairie dogs consistently, you will have to hand load, too, so I wouldn't really make the cartridge availability at mom & pop stores a factor). Anyway, we got into some BIG prairie dogs one summer,I mean BIG, these guys were the size of my boot, and I wear a 12.5). So we're shooting these big, fat slobs with 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets driving just under 3000 fps and, no kidding, the doggies were not doing the circus acrobatics that we had become accustomed to seeing. In fact, we have video of me shooting one of them at 228 yards - he absorbed the shot and just tipped over . . . on the video you can hear Kirk say 'man, they are awful tough when they get that big'. My point? We both went to 6mm bullets after that,Kirk in a custom built .243 and I went with a Savage 12 BVSS). Now we explode the doggies all the way out to 600+ yards. The recoil is not a consideration - I'm 185 pounds and Kirk is 160 pounds . . . we shoot all day with no recoil fatigue. And seeing the prairie dog explode in the scope isn't necessary with the .243 because you'll see it flipping thru the air easy enough without looking down the scope.
Don't get me wrong, the .223 is an awesome little pill and we still start out with it when we first open up on a doggie town. I use it on ground squirrels a lot - both of us have Savages in .223 . . . his is a 110-FP and mine is a 12-FV. His still puts 3 shots inside a dime, mine puts three shots almost in the same hole - Savage makes awesome rifles, don't they?! When I shoot the barrel out of my .243 I'll simply get a replacement . . . I'm of the opinion that a fella can shoot a rifle out and have fun, or he can shoot the rifle out and worry about it while he's doing it.
Go with both rifles, if you can. If not, I highly recommend the .243 - none of this matters if you don't put a good scope on top.
Well, good luck on your quest . . . it isn't a job if you love it, right?
Here's a look at a 95 yard target after 3 rounds through my Savage .223 - load was 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with 25 gr Varget pushing it; COL is 2.332,with comparator).

 

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Well I don't think that I am going to be much help here but,....

I like both, I have an older model Savage M12 in 223 that is a dead on laser at out too 250-300 yds, but in the Nevada wind that can be hard to do. so then I bring out the Rem700 243, which takes care of the long range issue. both are accurate rifles and In my OP about the same cost to reload If you find deals on 6mm bullets, which are out there and can be found, you just need to wait and watch and buy in bulk. I have an older Savage Model 99 in 243 that has had thousands of rounds threw it and still holds true to this day.

Another option which most people claim is less accurate, but I don't. is buying a TC Encore/Contender and getting both barrel's for it. they truly can shoot great once you get the load developed.
and I know several BR and GS that swear by TC Encore/Contenders and use them over and over. honestly though it really comes down to the amount of cash and what you really want to achieve
BOOM

Good luck

 

[DaveWhite]

Well, given your parameters, I would not get either. If you want to reach out and touch PDs, get a .22-250 and with 55 grain Nosler BTs you will be able to double your desired 300 yard range. I would get the Remington. Just be prepared to glass bed the action and have some trigger work done. Perhaps some day Remington will make one ready to shoot out of the box, but in the meantime it will take a bit of work to bring out its potential. After that, it is the rifleman's rifle.

Then put a decent scope on it and at 20x, just count the whiskers before you spread the red mist.

Dave White
Remington 700VLS, .22-250
Leupold Vari-X III 6.5x20x40

Ruger #1V, .22-250
Leupold Vari-X III 6.5x20x40

 

[people]

Out of the two I would get the .223 Rem. It will give you great barrel life and will not get as hot as fast.

This year has been slow for shooting PD. I have shot just over 2,000 rds mainly with two .223s. Most years I normaly shoot close to or over 5,000 rds a year. I do not know about you but it is a real pain to pay for that much reloading stuff just for the 223 now start dumping powder for a 243. Even with a easy load this year I would have shot out the tube on a 243.

I also have a 22-250 and a 6mmbr they do hit very hard and will make a PD fly nicely. The draw backs to them are the barrel gets hot fast and the cost per shot is more than the 223.

I guess your choice really depends on what you want to do with the rifle. If it is just PD then the 223 is the only way to go if you plan on shooting deer with it then the 243.

 

[mattri]

Thanks to all for the great replies. I just found a great deal on a .270 so that covers the deer rifle. I'll go with a .223 for my pd gun. Thanks again, Matt.

 

[cliffy]

I shoot a Ruger Model 77 Mark II .223 Remington with a 6-24mm Burris Signature Select scope mostly at 20x. Berger makes some pretty fantastic 55 grain bullets suitable for 300 yards even with my old eyes. A 1-in-12" twist seems no handicap well out there. Alliant RL-10x powder seems unbeatable as my powder of choice. CCI 450 primers also seem unbeatable, if currently super impossible to find anywhere. I have very few MagTech 7 1/2 SRM primers left, but they register just fine loadwise. Where have all the primers gone? cliffy

 

[soldierofchrist]

223 remington is a better all around round for prarie dogs and is my mainstay round for them, 204 ruger is also nice! I would use the 243 on really long shots and in windy conditions and use a 70 or 80 grain varmint bullet. Barrel life of the 223 is a lot longer and will sustain rapid fire shooting a lot better. If you have the money get both, you can never have to many, LOL. Nothing says splat like a fast 6mm round.

 

[ART005]

I vote for .223 remington for varmint because half of your shooting is likely to be target work and the less costly the ammo better. I have a Savage Model 16FHVSS (Accustock, Accustrigger) and it is excellent! A little heavy for off hand but great prone off the grass and bi-pod. The .223 has the energy to take deer up to 100yds where permitted. The .243 is more capable with deer but I'd rather have a .270 for that. My .223 puts .55gr 3240 fps bullets through 1/4" mild steel out to about 250 yards. For prairie dogs, I would say 500 yards (10 MOA) is the confident limit but it has the energy to go to 700 yards (20 MOA). The longer lasting barrel plus lower cost ammo is a nice perk. I would stay with the slower twist barrel for up to 55gr.

Get the highest quality rifle you can, it really makes a difference. I have a Ruger M77 MKII in 7mm rem mag and even after trigger work and muzzle brake it is no where near as good as the Savage even though the Ruger action is better. I use a 6-24x50mm 30mm tube First Focal Plane OptiCo.us scope. The quality and 1st Focal Plane Ballistic Calculator are a great combo for Prairie Dogs.

 

[moorepower]

I just got back from a Wyo PD hunt, and was smacking them at almost 250 with a .17HH, 325 with a .222, and used the .204 for longer shots. I got a few hits at over 350 with a .223. 300yds. is not the max range of a .223. Get a scope with mil dot or moa and dope for the wind. It's not that hard. FYI the .222 was even heating up in a few of the dogtowns, I can't imagine how may shots I would have got with a .22-250 or .243.