Who Knows the 222 Remington?

[drover]

Drover, You do realize Bryan365 asked about bipod technique and not me, the original poster, right? In any event, I appreciate the good advice.

Sorry I misread the post -

drover

 

[Evan]

@drover, thanks for the detailed response. My follow-ups:

1. I do not use an unstable rear support, I use an good Protektor rear bag. I do just barely touch the buttstock with the shoulder. I do not apply any cheek pressure.

2. I use a short Harris bipod on the bench. One problem may be that the sling swivel is near the front end of the stock.

3. Thanks for the tip re rubber feet on concrete.

4. I'm pretty sure I said "best groups" (plural), not a one-off.

5. I no longer use the bipod, after reading other posts about bipods being problematic. I use a conventional front rest now. But I saw comments here and elsewhere about proper bipod technique, hence my question. If I learned more about bipod technique I might go back to using one.
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Your number 5 makes me sad. Lots of folks around here readily jump on how bad bipods are whenever anyone asks for advice and what all these detractors are really saying is "I've never successfully managed to shoot from a bipod so I don't think it can be done"

I've had no problem shooting many tiny groups from harris type bipods, but it's a more athletic endeavor that requires the shooter to have some physical control of the system. This is opposite of how a good bench system operates where the less you touch it the better.

The key with a traditional bipod (not at F-class ski-type) is to have something you can push the legs against, like a lip at the front of the bench, or dig the feet into the dirt a little when prone, so you can lean in to it and load it all up. With constant pressure, it shouldn't skip or bounce and you can re-acquire the target quickly after the shot because the system doesn't move much and you should return to the same position after the recoil impulse. The trick with this technique is good breathing discipline. Deep breath in, slowly breath out and squeeze the trigger. You can't touch it off just any old time; it's got to be on a slow deliberate exhale to maintain consistent pressure on the rifle. Just like with any athletic endeavor, you don't hold your breath or inhale while performing.

Sorry OP, this is way off track. I just wanted to throw in a rebuke to the "bipods hurt accuracy" bologna that gets sold around this forum as fact.

 

[Brians356]

Your number 5 makes me sad. Lots of folks around here readily jump on how bad bipods are whenever anyone asks for advice and what all these detractors are really saying is "I've never successfully managed to shoot from a bipod so I don't think it can be done"

I've had no problem shooting many tiny groups from harris type bipods, but it's a more athletic endeavor that requires the shooter to have some physical control of the system. This is opposite of how a good bench system operates where the less you touch it the better.

The key with a traditional bipod (not at F-class ski-type) is to have something you can push the legs against, like a lip at the front of the bench, or dig the feet into the dirt a little when prone, so you can lean in to it and load it all up. With constant pressure, it shouldn't skip or bounce and you can re-acquire the target quickly after the shot because the system doesn't move much and you should return to the same position after the recoil impulse. The trick with this technique is good breathing discipline. Deep breath in, slowly breath out and squeeze the trigger. You can't touch it off just any old time; it's got to be on a slow deliberate exhale to maintain consistent pressure on the rifle. Just like with any athletic endeavor, you don't hold your breath or inhale while performing.

Sorry OP, this is way off track. I just wanted to throw in a rebuke to the "bipods hurt accuracy" bologna that gets sold around this forum as fact.

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of info I was hoping for. I'd asked someone else about a comment they'd made about "pre-loading the bipod" but they never replied. I'll try what you suggest.
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[Rich Lee]

go with hart from new York and don't look back

 

[afret]

Is there a delineable technique for shooting off a bipod which eliminates adverse effect on vertical?

I ask for two reasons: 1. I have shot my best groups off a bipod (on a concrete bench) and I'd like to know what I must have been doing right but was unaware of. And 2. If I'm not mistaken there are popular competitive disciplines shot off bipods, so I assume there exists some methodology which proves successful.
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Here's an article you might find interesting:
https://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/bugholes-from-bipod/

 

[AccelR8]

Another range trip, I won't bore you with pictures. Wind was not a factor today. I shot 6 groups of 5 shots each, 2 different bullets. I went back and took my best groups previously fired by those bullets and looked at powders used and charge weights and used those, except as someone here suggested with a zero jump. Touching the lands. No big improvement, same as how this thing has been doing up to now. Velocities were as expected with no big swings. One group was an inch and a half, several were an inch, and one was three quarters.

But here's a weird thing; I fired 30 rounds. The target paper has 28 holes. Two of the groups show only 4 holes. No stray holes anywhere on the target. I did not cross-fire, no aiming spots have six holes. Some aiming points have clear 2-bullets-through-one-hole indications (ragged hole) but those groups also indicate 5 shots. The 2 groups that only have 4 holes, if they did have same-hole pass throughs I'll tell you what, the second bullet center-punched the first hole absolutely perfect. If you noticed, I started a thread a little while ago titled “Ever Lose a Bullet” where this happened before. Less holes than shots taken. I think it's hard to believe that this would happen three times within a week or two, twice on the same day.

It's a 1:12 barrel and velocities are not that high, 3,100 to 3,500 so I don't think it's blow-ups. Today, the two missing bullets were not the same, one was a 50 gr. and one was a 40.

Also, one group was three holes touching, and two holes three-quarters of an inch apart. One of the four shot groups...first shot here, second and third shots below the first about an inch low, then the forth right beside the first. 5th shot never printed on target.

So, I'm going to take a break from this project until I can get another scope. I can see no reason to continue because I'm clearly not making progress. The scope is the most likely suspect at this time, I think.

 

[Brians356]

@AccelR8,

You mean there was no moving backer?

Seriously, it's not uncommon for a bullet to pass perfectly through an existing hole. You can never prove what happened here. I tape my 8-1/2 x 11 targets, contiguous to each other, in the middle portion of a much larger cardboard target backer. Many times, especially when sighting in a rifle after changing something like the scope, bullets will miss the target "page" but strike an adjacent page, or the cardboard backer. I will put blue tape over any old holes in the backer which are visible around the new target pages, to avoid confusion.
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[velocette]

Our .222 loving group just got a little larger. Went to a gunshow Sunday with my shoot n buddy. He found and negotiated (hard) for a Smith & Wesson (Howa) .222 rifle that looked very nice. Needless to say, he went home with it. Upon close inspection, the rifle appeared to be essentially new, like brand new out of the box. No wear on the locking lugs, no wear on the bolt ways, no wear to be found. He's going to begin new rifle break in on Thursday at our local range.

 

[velocette]

Update on the new .222 owner. Today he took his new pride & joy to our local range. After (very) few rounds, he was printing 1/2" groups @ 100 yds with NO load development at all. Using 53 SMKs and H 322. I did not want to tell him about Berger 52s and VV N 133 or N 130. YET.
When I left the range after banging away, (30 calibers today) until my shoulder was sore, he was still there with a smile all the way across his face. A good day it was.
My friend is a frequent lurker here, a lurker, not a post'er.

 

[AccelR8]

Well I got another scope. Actually put the new one on a 700 and switched the one off the 700 onto the 788. Now watching the weather forecast for a day that's not blowing 20 mph.

 

[NorCalMikie]

A caution for you on the Wilson barrels, the ones used by Cooper are lapped, not all Wilson barrels are - something you may want to check on if you do decide to order one.

A little OT but, I was working on building one of my Wildcats. Didn't want to spend BIG $$$ on a barrel and end up not being happy with the round.(6.8 BR)
Got turned on to a couple of Wilson blanks up for auction. Bid on both but was only able to snag one. ($125.00) Was also told that the Wilson barrels were crap because they wern't lapped?? Got it threaded and chambered. Turned out to be one of my better BUG HOLE MAKERS!! Would I get another one?? IN A HEART BEAT!!

 

[AccelR8]

Maximum confusion today.

Last range trip, I had mounted a different scope and zeroed it in...not really zeroed but hitting 2" high.
As I had only fired a few rounds I did not clean it. It just sat in the case until today.

I had loaded some of my best-so-far grouping rounds. 40 grain Noser FB tipped Varmageddon, H322. Charge weight .3 grains below Nosler's published max. The average velocity I got was 3,454 fps.

You may recall from previous posts I've had some bullets seemingly disappear.

At the range today, shot number 1. 3,454 fps. No hole in target. Shot 2. 3,455 fps. No hole in target. Shot 3. 3,465 fps. No hole in target. This is a big target, about 24" square. 100 yards.

I pulled the bolt and bore sighted on my target and looked through the scope. Looked OK to me. I just packed up and went home.

Surely these things can't be blowing up at 3,400-3,500 fps and 12-twist. Calculated rpm is 207,240.

Are 40 grain V-Maxs tougher?

edit to add; I shot 3 of the Noslers in a 223 at an average of 3,368 fps and they all made it to the target in a nice little cluster.

 

[pintopete]

AccelR8, order up some a Sierra #1400 HPFB Matchking bullets. When they come, load them with about 21.0gr H-322. Seat the bullets about .010 off the rifling. Primer and brass don’t really matter, within reason. Winchester brass and a Winchester small rifle primers are fine for this exercise. If the rifle doesn’t group well with them, it’s got issues. From the sound of things, I think there is something amiss with your rifle.

I doubt the bullets are blowing up. Move in close to target, maybe 30 yards. Use huge paper with backer, like the back of a shotgun patterning target or police silhouette. From there you will get a better idea, or proof of what is going on. A .222 Remington will not blow up a 50gr V-Max or the 53gr MatchKings. Either can be used in a 22/250 or .220 Swift.

I think you’re chasing the impossible here. Sorry to say. Do you have a knowledgeable buddy that can look the rifle over for you? We all make mistakes and sometimes overlook the obvious. If you have issues with screws loosening, you need to resolve that. Something is wrong with that. Scope base screws on a Remington should be tightened to about 15-25in/lbs. Rings no more than 15in/lbs. Remington action screws 45in/lbs for wood stock, 65in/lbs for HS Precision stock with aluminum bedding block. If needed, clean screws and use clear nail polish as a thread locker. Have you checked the action bedding? Lastly, have the barrel scoped.

Best of luck, Peter.

www.tripledeuce.net

 

[AccelR8]

Well...40 grain Hornady V-Max, 30 shots fired, 30 holes in targets. Up to 3656 fps. Still have to work on vertical dispersion though. Groups about 1/4 to 1/2 inch wide and 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch vertical.

I'm getting more than 100 fps extreme spreads. I'm weighing charges as carefully as I can, but honestly wonder about the accuracy of my scale (RCBS 505). Also I am beginning to notice wide variances in bullet seating effort. Still, at just 100 yards, I don't think those issues make up the whole puzzle. I think some issue with the gun may be the biggest contributor. Or me...but I can get better precision when I shoot other rifles so...the adventure continues!

 

[Longtrain]

[QUOTE="centershot, post: 37654631,...I had a Savage, 9 twist in .223. I shot 55 grain bullets in it and it would k-hole. Sent it back to Savage and they said to use 69 grain bullets. They sent me a target and it was fine. I thought a 9 twist would stabilize any light bullet![/QUOTE]

I probably had the same 1:9 Savage, it loved 52 SMK’s. I actually loaded it down to 35 grainers, which at max would instantly knock down bowling pins at 300 yards.

Did you check the twist? Can’t believe it was a 1:9, something wasn’t right. I used to shoot 52 SMK’s in standing and rapid sitting out of a 1:8 with no issues at all.
I get flabbergasted when reports of results or recommendations that fly in the face of accepted ballistics are touted by manufacturers.

 

[500yards]

the cartridge is very accurate. That's not saying it's going to be accurate in that rifle though. The 222 is basically a discountinued cartridge though. Since the introduction of the 223, it has taken over the 222 and 222 Mag market and most all companies have gone to it as the standard cartridge in that size range, so you're not going to find much in the way of new guns out there for it, or info on it.

 

[AWS]

It still has a pretty good following in Europe as some countries don't allow military cartridges.

 

[jaytee]

I've got a Rem 700 ADL in 222 that I bought new in 76 or 77 and it is the very best shooting rifle I have ever owned. I probably only worked up a half dozen maybe a dozen different loads way back when and when loaded with 52 gr. Sierra HPBT's and the right powder, it was a tack driver from the word go. So much fun to shoot and cheap as well.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Built this, Savage action, Shaw Barrel, SSS trigger, Boyds stock and Vortex 6.5-20x40mm target dot. Very utilitarian but gets the job done.



And won this with it.



Then there's the hunting rifles in 222 Rem

Model 70 Meopta Artimes 1.5-6x40mm






The Sako 1-4x20m Leupold



I like the 222 Rem,

what are your impressions of the Boyd stock? pls be as detailed as you can.

 

[AWS]

The Boyds stock is nice, fit is good, I shot it without bedding it and it shoots very small groups. I won an egg shoot with it. It is comfortable. My only complaint would be that the wood feels soft, I'm seriously thinking of adding pillars and bedding it but it is shooting so well that I haven't messed with it, kind of waiting to see if it ever becomes a problem. I have the same stock on a Mini Howa that feels the same but again the rifle shoots great. I did pull the Boyds off the Howa and put the factory stock back on for coyote hunting as I find the thumbhole stock awkward for hunting.