What is the expected real-world accuracy???

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by 6and7mm, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. 6and7mm

    6and7mm Silver $$ Contributor

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    What could someone really expect, from an accurate rifle, for 400 yard accuracy, five shot groups, in 223 Rem shooting Sierra 69 grain match king bullets?
     
  2. Prose

    Prose

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    What kind of rifle? There are a number of standards to compare to.

    My 3 really, really accurate rem varmint hs 223’s can do about 1.5” at 400 in calm conditions with premium hand loads. These are pick of the litter remingtons that have been accurized. Factory barrels though.
     
  3. Paddyd

    Paddyd

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    I can tell you that I have yet to shoot any 69 SMK or any out that far for groups, BUT my old Win Model 70 HV absolutely loves the Hornady 68 gr match bullets . My best groups were in the LOW teens. I think the best of all was a .119" center to center @ 100 yds using Benchmark powder and LC cases. That was out of a 1/9 twist factory rifle. The only mod to it was I bedded the chamber area about 1.5" in front of the recoil lug. I'd guess if you have a good rifle the 69's should do as well as the Hornady's do . Should easily group into a couple inches or less at 400, but as the range increases so do the variables that are almost non existent @ 100.
     
  4. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    The answer to your question requires some knowledge of the typical wind conditions. The 69s don't fare too well in wind at those distances. Obviously the shooter's ability to read the conditions will also have an impact.

    In absolutely dead calm wind conditions, I would expect a finely-tuned load with the 69s in a good bolt rifle setup should might able to produce 5-shot groups in the 0.25 to 0.3 MOA range (maybe 1.0 to 1.5 inches, or thereabouts). It might be just a tick better with a dedicated BR setup and a very skilled driver, although I doubt there are very many BR setups chambered in .223 Rem.

    As the wind picks up, so will the expected size of the groups. For shooting 400 yd and farther with a .223 Rem, your best bet is to have the rifle throated appropriately to load 80-90 gr bullets if there is much wind where you shoot most often. The "heavies" can be loaded with equal precision to bullets in the 50-70 gr range, and perform far better in windy conditions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  5. xswanted

    xswanted Gold $$ Contributor

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    I personally believe if you can take your rifle and in real world conditions shoot 1 MOA you’re doing very well.

    To answer your question I think anything under 6” would be real world expectations for smaller than average group size.

    Average guy probably 6-8” groups at that range with that combo.
     
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  6. K22

    K22

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    Define "real world".

    There are specialist these days with special rifles, scopes, etc. making incredible shots at distance unheard of in my younger days. These guys are amazing but I haven't seen much of it where I shoot and hunt.

    The average guy I meet at the range and I'm at the range about 2 days a week - year around, is about a 1.5 moa shooter off the bench with a factory rifle with factory ammo. Some are better, some are worse, a few are a lot better especially with tuned rifles and reloads. But the clubs where I belong the max range distance is 200 yards and I don't see many groups under 2" even off the bench at this distance.

    I have a few 223's that are 1/2 to 1/4 moa rifles off the bench at 100 yards. But I don't believe I have the skills to extrapolate that level of accuracy out to 400 yards nor did I have the need to since I rarely shoot off a bench - only during load testing or initial scope sight in. 99% of my shooting is off a shooting cross stick practicing for varmint / predator / deer hunting. That probably isn't real world.;)

    While I hunt a lot of varmints and some predators (without the aid of a bench) I have no need to go beyond 300 yards and 90% the time I'm under 250 yards. I don't know if I'm real world or just old world - probably the latter.;)
     
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  7. Tommie

    Tommie Gold $$ Contributor

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    Not sure your question could be any more vague. Kinda like asking “What realistic MPG should I expect from a sedan?”
     
  8. ballisticxlr

    ballisticxlr

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    OP's apparently at that part of his shooting life where he thinks that there are manifest differences between things where there really aren't. I wonder if he's meaning to ask for an error budget like https://www.arl.army.mil/arlreports/1999/ARL-TR-2065.pdf (OP, don't read that, it'll just confuse the issue). The error budget of https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgov...0/armament/WednesdayLandmarkBPerArvidsson.pdf might be more enlightening.

    Seriously though, perhaps OP's question coud be redefined as "How well will I be able to shoot 69gr MK's from a .223 at 400 yards?" And the answer is, "How the hell should we know?" Personally I don't know anyone that regularly shoots groups at intermediate range who is not a formal benchrest competition shooter or a nerd with too much time on their hands.
     
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