Timing trigger rem 700

Discussion in 'Gun Project Questions & Gunsmithing' started by Rockchuck, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. Rockchuck

    Rockchuck Gold $$ Contributor

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    I've been playing with a rem 700 action and extra cocking piece. I'am trying to eliminate the cock on close. To find a happy medium I have eliminated about 98% of cock on close and I have .230 of firing pin fall. Just wanted to know what you think about what I have. Do you think I will run into problems?

    Ed
     
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  2. carlsbad

    carlsbad Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. Gold $$ Contributor

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    I think you'll be fine. The normal number for nominal is .240.

    I adjust all my rem's to eliminate cock on close but I generally upgrade to a PTG bolt. The PTG bolts are well designed in this area and when cock on close is eliminated, generally I end up with .240" of fall. Before I adjust, I often have .275 or .280 of fall and the actions are horrible to cycle.

    I turn all my firing pins to .060" which requires less energy to dent the primer and I think contributes to better ignition.

    --Jerry
     
  3. Rockchuck

    Rockchuck Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yea I had close to .300 fall when I started.

    Ed
     
  4. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Who makes an oversize cocking piece to go the other way?
     
  5. WayneShaw

    WayneShaw

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    I have always wondered why there aren't cocking pieces available at varying lengths.
     
  6. Dgd6mm

    Dgd6mm

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    I believe Bighorn is now making different cocking pieces for the use with various triggers. But ofcourse these are for Bighorn actions.
     
  7. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Ed, ultimately the target will be your answer. Not single groups but aggs. Weak ignition will still shoot small some days. In my experience a stock rem 700 ignition wont shoot its best at that amount of fall. .240" is a good minimum number for a good ignition. A 700 will need other work to get there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  8. moondog

    moondog Silver $$ Contributor

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    They do
     
  9. carlsbad

    carlsbad Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. Gold $$ Contributor

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    It's not the cocking piece by itself. You can adjust the cocking piece but every thousandth you take off of cock on close takes the same amount off of pin fall. There are lots of dimensions in the bolts that have to work together.

    Trying to restore firing pin fall isn't that easy either.

    --Jerry
     
  10. Pawnee Bill

    Pawnee Bill

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    I am not sure I understand "cock on close". The bolt is 'cocked on opening' on the Rem 700 action, as opposed to cock on closing like the 1917 Enfield. What am I not understanding here?
     
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  11. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    A rem is not a cock on open action, its both. It cocks about .200" on open, the rest on close.
     
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  12. DickE

    DickE Gold $$ Contributor

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    I've been thinking about this lately. Could a guy cut down in diameter the end of the firing pin were the cocking piece goes, and thread it? Then silver solder a threaded piece into the cocking piece, thus having an adjustable firing pin assembly?
     
  13. carlsbad

    carlsbad Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes, lots of work. threaded firing pins have to have a way of locking them to keep them from moving. But all you adjust is cock on close. The firing pin protrusion is set by geometry. Since cock on close only needs to be adjusted once, it is easier to machine the cocking piece. If you want to experiment with triggers etc, it might be worth it. Don't use high temp silver solder. --Jerry
     
  14. Papa Charlie

    Papa Charlie Gold $$ Contributor

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    OK, without looking at my bolt, are we talking about how high the bolt plug is from the bolt body when cocked? I would assume that to adjust this you are modifying the ramp height?
     
  15. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Threading the firing pin and cocking piece would not adjust cock on close, it would adjust firing pin fall within the limits of the rest of the ignition design.

    Op, theres no easy way to achieve no cock on close AND have enough pin fall unless the action was designed that way originally. Fixing them requires a complete redesign of that part of the action. Once a guy realizes whats involved, usually the next step is trying to convince yourself you really dont need all that pin fall ;) Bottom line is the cocking cam helix is wrong and has to be re-cut to fix the problem. There is no way around the limits of the cocking cam helix design.
     
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  16. liljoe

    liljoe Silver $$ Contributor

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    John Pierce made a adjustable pin and cocking piece at one time. Not sure about current status.

    Joe
     
  17. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    It would be a good part to make along with an oversized shroud.
     
  18. carlsbad

    carlsbad Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. Gold $$ Contributor

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    alex,
    I stand corrected. thanks. I didn't think this completely through before responding.

    Still, a threaded firing pin is a difficult solution. I like the PTG bolt solution as that is a nice upgrade in itself.

    And as you say, and neither of us wants to write the treatise on, once you start modifying the bolt to move these parameters around lots of other parameters become influenced.

    --Jerry
     
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  19. misfire

    misfire Gold $$ Contributor

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    So is it really possible then to eliminate all cock on close and still have proper firing pin fall.
    And just for curiosity's sake what would something like that cost to have a Smith do not trying to pin you down or anything just curious.
    Sorry for the rookie questions don't know much about Remington's just got my first one.
     
  20. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes, I have done many of them. Generally its not worth the cost on a 700, unless you just want the sweetest 700 you can get. Mostly I do it to custom actions that where not designed to be timed like Kelbly's. Due to the work involved, its not cheap. Unless your smith is recutting the cocking cam helix to do it right, I'd learn to live with the cock on close.
     
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