Simple question for our Australian members.

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Nick Caprinolo, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Nick Caprinolo

    Nick Caprinolo

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    Is the following statement true?


    From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia

    Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own
    government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

    The first year results are now in:
    Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
    Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
    Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

    In the state of Victoria.....alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

    While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady

    decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

    Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....'

    You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.

    The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

    Take note Americans, before it's too late!

    FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.

    DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.

    AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
     
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  2. Mechdraw

    Mechdraw

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  3. divingin

    divingin

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    Nice article, Mechdraw. Thanks!
     
  4. Bill K

    Bill K Silver $$ Contributor

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    Very well written article and shows just how wrong gun control of legal and lawful citizens is not the answer or the way to effect criminals and they be the one's punished and not lawful people.
     
  5. murray brook

    murray brook Silver $$ Contributor

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    Well written and I'm sure accurate but unfortunately means nothing. I say this because these people don't really care about gun control, they want CONTROL.They care little about the numbers. They want us gun owners to do as they do. Period. I read something the other day that really struck home. When a republican/conservative doesn't believe in guns or hunting then he won't hunt or have a gun. When a Democrate/liberal doesn't believe in hunting or guns then he doesn't want you to hunt or have a gun. So true.JMO
     
  6. SGK

    SGK Silver $$ Contributor

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    Both the posted articles are a pile of coprolite
     
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  7. Nick Caprinolo

    Nick Caprinolo

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    Do you have any basis to make this statement. Miami is a long way from Australia!
     
  8. SGK

    SGK Silver $$ Contributor

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    I’m a New Zealander, lived in Oz and spent 19 years in the UK until 2 years ago.
     
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  9. Texas10

    Texas10 Gold $$ Contributor

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    The unfortunate fact is that NO incumbent wants to vote for or against any bill that might adversely affect their re-election chances. That has been said by many congressmen, both Rep and Dem, so it's not about CONTROL (your emphasis).

    So, the question that comes to my mind is what is it about the election process that means so much financially to an incumbent? Is every bill only weighed for it's monetary value, and re-election potential, having nothing to do for what's good for society? Has the position of Congressman been co-opted by those whose only concern is their own personal wealth and potential gain? As has been said in Congress, Congressional gridlock is a good thing!
     
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  10. rwj

    rwj Gold $$ Contributor

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    An excellent example for why term limits are needed!
     
  11. 10XSHOOTER

    10XSHOOTER Gold $$ Contributor

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    Second the term limits!
     
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  12. INShooter

    INShooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Not trying to be political, but who believes that politicians will ever vote for term limits. I could see myself walking on the moon before that happens.
     
  13. rwj

    rwj Gold $$ Contributor

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    Agreed! I’m by no means a constitutional expert, but I believe that a national referendum is possible and that the vote outcome would be binding. I anxiously await input from others having direct/detailed knowledge! Oops... perhaps not a good idea as it’s a political topic...
     
  14. Larry Klutts

    Larry Klutts Gold $$ Contributor

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    We have term limits, it's called a vote.
    I give them two terms then vote for the best one I think would be a decent replacement as long as it's not a party change.
    I have voted to keep an incumbent in when there is no real choice to do otherwise.

    LK
     
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  15. murray brook

    murray brook Silver $$ Contributor

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    With all due respect I'm not pointing to incumbents. We all know these people would sell their mothers soul to get re-elected. Where I live the liberals mass want control and feel all must do as they see fit. They seem to think that they know what is best for all of us.JMO
     
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  16. argh

    argh

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    Incorrect and sensationalised.

    First, NO Edward in Australia shortens their name to "Ed". It will normally be Ted, sometimes Eddie, normally just "mate"

    On a more serious note, you can always go digging to find some statistic that will support your cause. There are lots of accurate stats cherry picked in the above, but for example, trying to pick crime rates in one year in one state rather than a longer term trend in a small country can sway figures dramatically.

    As a preface to what i will say, i grew up around firearms, owned numerous rifles as a kid pre 1996 changes, and now shoot competitive on a weekly basis, and own more rifles now than ever before.

    A good article here https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016...-and-suicides-john-howard-port-arthur/7254880 on the changes and how it impacted crime from the government based media (left wing leaning)

    What changed in 1996?
    Before 1996, crime rates with firearms were already declining, homicide rates were also falling, so all stats promoted by gun control groups were going to look good with the natural decline in those crimes, and claiming it was due to gun control....

    In 1996 Australia then banned all self loading firearms, pump action shotguns, kept already tight pistol controls, introduced the need for safe storage, and implemented "genuine need" requirements for all firearms, and introduwced the registration of each firearm.

    What did this do? For a normal shooter, you needed to buy a gun safe, register your guns, have a "genuine need" which was: be a farmer, join a target or hunting club, get a letter from a property owner where you are allowed to shoot. You also had to show a clean criminal record , but that was the case for a license previously, it just got a bit harder and domestic violence record stopped any chance of being licensed. All of this was not too hard if you are a regular shooter, but a pain in the arse if you just had a 22 in the corner of the cupboard for the odd country trip. These second groups was were the guns came from that were handed in. those people who "just 'cause i wan a gun" no longer had access to firearms. Self defence was NOT a genuine reason to own a gun. Unfortunately the ban on self loading firearms impacted genuine shooters that had a desire, followed the laws and were generally not a danger to the community.
    Handguns in australia were always tightly controlled, and this became more controlled, including the only use was at a range, or as a farmer if you got a special permit. There was no longer the ability to hunt with a handgun or just plink at tin cans on your own property. (I dont shoot pistol so my knowledge is not good here)

    What changed as a result for me?

    No longer could i own semi, not even a 5 shot 22 semi.
    I have to apply to the government for each gun i want to buy, and register it so that i cant sell it to someone thats not licensed. Some states are quick turnaround (less than 2 days) some are running at weeks delays.
    I can only transfer my guns through a dealer. I can sell privately but the transaction must be by a dealer and costs $30 or more in fees. My last purchase of a target rifle from interstate took about 6 weeks and was a painful process. Off the shelf gun from your gun shop is less of a problem.
    I always had to have a license to buy a gun or ammo, so that did not change. Purchasing ammo for guns you dont own, and stockpiling large amounts of ammo can be a problem, bit i have ,000s of 22 rounds and enough components on hand to reload several more thousands so not a problem for me.

    What changed in the community?

    Because all (most) the 22s, shotguns, old SMLE's, etc stored behind the bedroom door were gone, suicide by firearms dropped dramatically.... a fact touted as a success by gun control groups. BUT. Suicide by other means rose sharply, and suicide overall did not change much at all.
    Because the people that are less than "law abiding" no longer had legal access to guns, there were a few less domestic incidents. We all know of a bloke that lives down the road, or a "friend of a friend" that always seemed a bit dodgy and you sure as hell dont want them having easy access to guns.

    Crime rates in Australia continued their previous downward trend, and thats good, but not fully linked with gun law changes.

    All guns (legal) stored are now in locked safes and ammo separate, i would like to think that this has kept guns out of the hands of kids. We certainly dont hear of too many incidents of little kids picking up mum or dads gun from behind the door, their bedside table or handbag, and accidentally shooting someone (it does happen but not rarely)

    What didnt change!

    while it made it harder for petty criminals to get a gun, and certainly harder to get a pistol, hardcore criminals and big time gangs, drug dealers still had access to illegal guns. Thankfully, lot of these guys like to have little wars between themselves and their rival drug dealer, and they tend to just shoot themselves up.

    There will always be accidental shootings, this didnt change. There will always be suicide or domestic violence with individuals, no matter how well you do background checks, but i like to think some people in Australia who might have been less mentally stable no longer have access to guns.

    Crimes, break ins and armed holdups will still happen, they will just use different weapons like knives.

    Would i want it to go back....... yes, just so i could own self loading rifles.... but then again, i shoot f class single shots 95% of the time. I would love not having to ask for permission to buy a new gun, firstly from the wife, then from the government. On the flip side, i feel safer knowing that a large amount of small time criminals cant get a hold of illegal weapons, not because there not there, but they are in short supply and black market guns end up too expensive for them. I do not have any fears where i live that my house will get broken into by an armed intruder, i have no need for a gun to protect myself. I have no fears that if i get into an argument with the neighbour that they are going to pull a gun on me. I have no fear that a road rage incident will end up with another driver pulling a gun on me.

    Can the US do the same? I dont think so, No. You have too many guns in circulation, too many in the hands of criminals, you cant buy them all back to levels like Australia did, that makes us feel safe. As you wont be able to get guns back from crims, the average US Citizens who has a gun for self defence is not going to hand theirs in.... i wont start on your 2nd ammendment and the right to bear arms..... i know all of you on this forum will have strong opinions.

    This is MY take on how the guns laws changed, with reference to published figures. It is not every Australians opinion. Politically i am very central, not left nor right. And remember, it was the right wing of Australian politics which instituted these laws, not the socialist left as you may be led to believe.

    Bring on the flames...... i know lots of you, including Aussies will disagree with me, but read the entire post, put it in perspective. I shoot, i shoot regularly, the current gun laws dont restrict my sport, the local politician is our Club Patron, and we get thousands of dollars of government grants/handouts to help us run our club every year.
     
  17. Willow

    Willow

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    Well I'm one of your Australian members, and I'm also a Federal Agent who likes to shoot guns. The whole gun ban over here happened years ago - for better or for worse - it was before I ever touched a firearm. You can debate the statistics as much as you like but our laws work differently - you can't use a firearm for home protection/self protection here - you can be done for murder if someone breaks into your house and you pump lead into them so that argument doesn't work here. Most gun violence here originates from black market/stolen weapons. The unfortunate part is that law abiding firearm holders are often painted with the same brush.
     
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  18. RDavies

    RDavies Silver $$ Contributor

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    No flames from me. I was a regular shooter before 1996 and I only had to hand 2 of my many guns in but they were safe queens anyway and I bought new guns with the money I got for the semi autos. There are now more legal guns in Australia than there were in 1996. I now have 20 ranges within 4 hrs drive where I can shoot F class or just plink away but there are even more ranges than this where I can shoot pistols or shotguns. Every small town seems to have a gun shop, larger towns have many gun shops, so the industry is still ticking along just fine with business from many casual hunters and weekend plinkers.

    The new (24 year old) laws do still affect me in some ways. My new custom build should soon be completed so I better fill in a permit to acquire form online before I go to pick it up. Oh and my current gun safes are full, so I will need to buy another safe. Since I will have more room in this safe, I think I need another lever action, and maybe another shotgun. I thought of another 50 cal or a pistol, but will use my friends instead.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
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  19. wbm

    wbm

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    Huh! I knew a bloke like that once...right side was on his left, poor sod never knew whether he was coming or going. Anyway, sounds like you got a lot of "sheep" down under. We sure have our share up here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  20. dthomas

    dthomas Gold $$ Contributor

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    I would rather have freedom over a false sense of safety.
     
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