Scope ring problem,... is this my issue?

Discussion in 'Scopes, Optics, LRFs, Spotters, BoreScopes' started by Lefty Trigger, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Lefty Trigger

    Lefty Trigger Gold $$ Contributor

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    Bought a new scope and a set of rings to mount it. Got the scope mounted and leveled all looked great. Went to the range to sight in and it all went south... unable to bore sight at 50 yards (not enough down) tried a few shots at 100 yards and all shots are 10 inches high with scope cranked full down, not one click left! Gave up and came home. Checking everything now and I found that the rings are different height, just a little but I think its my problem. The rear ring measures .733 high and the front measures .723. Will this .010 thousands put me that far off at 100 yards or is there other issues? Ordering better rings now.
     
  2. joehjr95

    joehjr95

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    new rings should fix your problem. same concept as having a rail or scope mount with elevation built into it.
     
  3. Lefty Trigger

    Lefty Trigger Gold $$ Contributor

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    I started off thinking the same thing but only .010 difference how would that relate to 10 inches at 100 yards. 10 inches is a lot of 1/8 inch clicks so I'm starting to think there might be an issue with the scope as well.
     
  4. 243winxb

    243winxb

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    ScopeShimTable.JPG
     
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  5. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes, as the chart 243winxb posted shows, it's worth approximately 10 inches at 100 yards. But, if you get all of those 10 inches, you're still quite a bit short of optical center. That's where scope glass and even adjustments work best.

    Are you using a 20 or 30 moa base, by chance? If so, and unless shooting at long range, ditch it for standard bases.
     
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  6. Rob01

    Rob01

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    What scope and rings?
     
  7. jonbearman

    jonbearman I live in new york state,how unfortunate ! Gold $$ Contributor

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    Burris Zee rings with the inserts makes a o angle rail anything you want it to be within reason. You cant go wrong with them. If you already have them then get 0moa inserts.
     
  8. SPJ

    SPJ Whoops !! Gold $$ Contributor

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    Don’t feel too bad I’ve been messing around with a new scope for several months.
     
  9. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

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    What is the rifle action and base you are using?
    Is the action bedded in the stock?

    I dont know if buying new rings is going to fix your problem all the way. I bet you money that there's other underlying issues if you are that far off optical center.

    I dont like Burris Z Rings, and I'll tell you why...
    They work for correcting issues like you are having, but I dislike them because they are just a "bandaid" for a poorly mounted optic, badly stressed receiver, crooked barrel installation, poor scope base screw hole alignment, poorly manufactured base and/or rings, or faulty optic.
    Burris Z rings mask the problem, they dont "fix" anything.

    Most of the time this happens with a repeater receiver that's been over torqued in an un-bedded stock. The receiver is then stressed and bent, then that makes the scope base bent, which in turn screws up the ring alignment badly.

    Seen this happen more times than I can count, including on a couple of my own rifles many years ago when I didnt know any better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  10. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

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    Fun chart, but thats not universal by any means because it is critical to know the exact center-to-center ring spacing measurement which can vary from rifle to rifle. The distance between rings changes things dramatically with the effects of shim size. Its better to measure your rings and understand how to use the mathematical equation in order to calculate the effects of different shim thicknesses.
     
  11. KY_Windage

    KY_Windage

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    No, .010" difference will not make that much difference at 100 yards. The problem could be your scope, or it could be the fit of your barrel to your receiver. The latter is very common. The only practical fix for that is the Burris Signature (not simply the "Zee" rings) rings.

    If your rifle has a 20 moa (or similar) base on it, you might switch to a Zero moa base. That would also solve your problem.

    If your rifle has no moa in its base(s), I would get the Burris Signature rings. I have used them dozens of times and love them.
     
  12. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

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    You also have to understand that you are not just 10 inches high at 10 yards. It's much more than that.
    You are 10 inches high, PLUS half of the total elevation travel of your scope. So if your scope has 60 MOA of elevation, then the mounts are off by over 40 inches higher than they should be at 100 yards.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  13. Rob01

    Rob01

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    You don't need to be in the center of a scope's elevation. That is why people use canted bases to be lower in the scope for more up elevation.

    Still waiting for more details from the OP.
     
  14. Lefty Trigger

    Lefty Trigger Gold $$ Contributor

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    The rifle is my Savage 6.5x47 and it has a 0 moa base installed made by EGW. I have this rifle dialed in with a Sightron 10-50 and it does not have these issues. I'm currently building another rifle in a 7mm and purchased a scope from Cabelas with their rings, its not much of a scope but it has decent glass for what I want so curious how well it works I mounted it on my 6.5x47 rifle to try it out and found this issue. I ordered a better set of rings to try if they don't get me back on track I'll just simply return it and move on, I have 30 days. The scope does not have a zero stop and the turret caps are removable but only from a center screw and they are spline set.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  15. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

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    Totally depends on how far you plan to shoot. But you should still "plan" optical center for a riflescope at a given distance.
    My long range hunting rifles have scopes mounted so they hit optical center at 600 yards. I use shims with precisely calculated thicknesses that are bedded into the rear scope rings. Every cartridge has a different trajectory, and sometimes my rifles have rings spaced at different lengths (when not using a one piece), so the shims need to be individually calculated and custom made for each rifle.

    No need for canted bases. A scope can be made to aim with its optical center at any distance. If you start getting into ELR shooting, then maybe it would be best to use a combination of a canted base and bedded ring shim to hit optical center at the exact distance desired.
     
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  16. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yeah it very well could be partially the fault of the scope as well.
     
  17. BoydAllen

    BoydAllen

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    This is a classic example of why (except in the case of rings with self aligning inserts) rings should be lapped. When a light cut was made, the contact areas would have shown that there was a big problem that needed to be investigated before the scope was put into the rings. As to the opinion that the Burris Signature rings are a band aid, I disagree. They are a perfectly good fix. I have some on a Savage that is way off in the alignment of its scope mount holes. With the Burris rings, proper inserts, and the scope centered I am within an inch of center at 100 yards. The system works perfectly. Why should I spend more? There is one more thing that I think needs to be mentioned here. the closer to the limits of elevation adjustment that you are, the less windage adjustment that you have, and at the edges, optical performance can be slightly degraded from what it would be if the scope adjustments were near center.
     
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  18. Rob01

    Rob01

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    The optical will be center there somewhere obviously but it is not as important as people give it credit for. No need to plan it somewhere. Never have and shoot with 20-40 moa bases and never an issue.
     
  19. KY_Windage

    KY_Windage

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    Yes, it sounds like it is the scope. However, I routinely mount all my scopes just a few moa above "rock bottom," to allow for long range shooting. Lefty's is not far from that. It is hitting 10" high, or about 10 moa high. The Burris Signature Zee's permit you to change the scope a total of about 20 moa (40 with some other models), so those would make the scope perfect for me.

    With all due respect, the idea of using different height shims to move the tube around is about the dumbest thing I have heard suggested on a forum. The rings might lower your tube front (to permit LR shooting), but the rings will no longer be aligned. It would require major lapping to get them aligned, if it would even be possible. If rings are not aligned you have the risk of not only scope slippage during firing but also putting creases in your tube. And if you're telling me you use tilted shims to keep the rings aligned, then you aren't going to have a square bite on your base(s). The Burris Signature rings are about 1,000x better as a solution, and at the same time eliminate 100% of any alignment issues you have, and protect your tube from denting and marring.
     
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  20. Lefty Trigger

    Lefty Trigger Gold $$ Contributor

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    If I can get on zero at 100 yards with no clicks left I'm good because I normally start my zero at 200 yards so that should give me around 32 clicks up for 4 inches and that would be just fine. This is not going to be a precision rifle or I would be going with a better scope.
     

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