Savage large vs small shank - history

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Oldschool1, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Oldschool1

    Oldschool1

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    What is the history of this. My model 12 fclass has the large shank ( +.062") diameter. I see about10 small shank barrels for sale for.every large shank.

    Can anyone shed light on the history and why small is so popular? It would seem large shank would be preferred for rigidity.

    Thx
    -Paul
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  2. andrewsben

    andrewsben Silver $$ Contributor

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    The larger shank was originally used on WSM cartridges in 2001, and some other magnums. Modern actions in large shank are limited to the "precision target actions", so 12 FCLASS/F-TR/Palma/Benchrest/LRP, 112 Target Magnum. All the precision target actions are single shot except for the LRP. Think that some of the 10/110 BA ones are large shank as well.

    http://www.savagegunsmithing.com/savagetech.html

    You see a majority of small shank barrels because a majority of models are small shank.

    And yes the large shanks handle pressures better than their small shank counterparts.
     
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  3. SBS

    SBS Gold $$ Contributor

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    On their target rifles, Savage wanted to put on heavier barrels. With the barrel nut system, this was not very feasible without having a step past the nut. They simply bored the same size front receiver ring to accept a 1 1/8 OD thread instead of 1 1/16 and made a nut with a larger thread. This enabled them to use a larger & heavier diameter barrel while still having a decent looking taper. Handle pressure better than small shank and more rigid? Don't see how, as now the receiver ring is thinner and barrel steel is softer than the heat treated action. Don't think it's any worse, but can't see how it would be any better; just facilitates a larger barrel (or a larger cartridge). The single shot target action itself is more rigid, due to a small loading port cutout (excepting the dual port of course).
     
  4. mikecr

    mikecr

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    No, if your running a magnum diameter cartridge, you need the large shank. Otherwise the pockets won't stay tight. Savage knows what they're doing.
     
  5. SBS

    SBS Gold $$ Contributor

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    Of course Savage knows what they are doing, AND they still put the standard mag. ctgs. and smaller sizes (.30/.30-06 families) on the small shank actions without any problems. Large shank actions were to accommodate larger barrels or larger (than standard size magnums). The 1st large shank barrels to my knowledge were made for the original model of the smokeless m/l, because of the size of the breech plug. I still have one, rebarreled to .223. Most large shanks that have been produced by Savage have been for the target line where the majority of sales are for non-magnum calibers.
     
  6. Oldschool1

    Oldschool1

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    Thanks Everyone for the very insightful replies and technical discussion. So it would seem the vast majority of takeoffs being sold I guess more general hunting rifles - that explains it.

    So bigger shank = less radial expansion of chamber, and the delta in diameter increase of the threads that holds the barrel to the receiver could result in a higher clamp force, the diameter increase results in a stiffness of the barrel in the chamber region increase of roughly 30% in the bending moment around the bore axis - which I'm guessing is the larger motivation for doing such. That reduces whip magnitude of the barrel or at least changes the resonant frequency of the barrel.

    Thx for the history - to me (right or wrong)it would be favorable from an accuracy and reduce barrel fatigue (at least in theory).
     
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  7. mikecr

    mikecr

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    There is no disadvantage to a larger tennon.
    And SBS, a 30-06 is not a magnum diameter cartridge.
     
  8. savagedasher

    savagedasher

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    The trouble I see with the target action
    Most aftermarket barrels are to small on the base . Thread on the barrel is
    1.119 and the barrel is 1.250 the shoulder is only .130 or .065 .
    I feel a nut is needed. Larry
     
  9. Loggins J

    Loggins J

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    Northland shooters supply check them out
     
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  10. mauser284

    mauser284

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    Because they have no clue how to run a modern mass production assembly line.

    Just look at all the goofy stuff they do with single stack double stack center feed, non-center feed, bottom bolt release, top bolt release and multiple whole spacing on bottom metal etc.....Just toss large shank and small shank on the list of things should have sorted out by now and moved on with.

    I suspect they have a mountain of specialized machines and tooling that they are milking for all it's worth because nothing else makes much sense.

    You do not see Remington changing the format of the Remington 700 that often. Sometimes you need to just spend the money redesign, make those choices permanent and applying them through the entire product line. They need to pick the large shank for all centerfire cartridge actions, pick the top bolt release for all centerfire actions, pick not more than 2 bottom metal/mag designs chose 1 whole spacing design for all centerfire actions that are short action or long action and call it a day.

    As a Savage owner I long ago got tired of their terrible management and design decisions.

    It is fine to make mistakes in the past or not think things through in the past. In this day and age though once you have some history and have had the chance to learn from your mistakes and have the technology to cheaply look ahead and plan ahead their is no excuse to keep doing things like some fly by night operation or cottage industry.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  11. 46and2

    46and2

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    Savage 300wm amd 7mmRM diamater cartridge are in small shank actions.
    I have 10 firings on my 300wm brass in a small shank. 7 firings on a 26 Nosler brass small shank (custom barrels).
     
  12. Twicepop

    Twicepop Silver $$ Contributor

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    Didn't the large shank actions originally come out with the smokeless powder muzzle loader? A few custom makers turned out center fire barrels right after they came on the market. With these being classified as muzzle loading rifles, they side stepped the FFL requirements needed for a center fire rifle.
     
  13. SBS

    SBS Gold $$ Contributor

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    The first Savage smokeless muzzleloaders used the same action as the .223, only with a large shank barrel. These had to be sold as modern firearms because only a barrel change was required to accomplish the change. They used a breech plug similar to a .223. Ignition was not reliable and they then produced the ML II which did not require ATF paperwork. The ML II is not readily convertible to a modern rifle.
     
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