Powder Issues?
- Thread starter Mechdraw
- Start date
Tin oxide , has an effect on copper. The H4350 doesnt show it, but lists additives, 10% non-hazardous. RL 15 doesnt have Tin listed.
Sorry, not help.
Edit add-
See post No. 12 below.
And see link. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/01/new-advanced-alliant-powders-reloder-23-and-reloder-26/
Sorry, not help.
Edit add-
See post No. 12 below.
And see link. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/01/new-advanced-alliant-powders-reloder-23-and-reloder-26/
Last edited:
How did you evaluate this? With a bore scope? RL15 is a double base powder and should foul more than H4350, although I have never had that issue with it. Both powders have worked excellent for me in 6.5X47 Lapua and other calibers for the last 15 years or so. It's all a guess if you don't have a bore scope.
Thanks for the replies,
It's a 6.5x47L and has always fouled using H4350 but someone told me to try RL15. When I started it showed very minimal copper, but like you said it powder fouled bad but shot well.
The bores were looked into using a Hawkeye borescope.
I tried N550 and it also copper fouls, but Varget not so much as H4350.
The loads are around 2835 with 140's and 2925 with 130's, I would not have thought that they would be low loads, I maybe wrong.
It's a 6.5x47L and has always fouled using H4350 but someone told me to try RL15. When I started it showed very minimal copper, but like you said it powder fouled bad but shot well.
The bores were looked into using a Hawkeye borescope.
I tried N550 and it also copper fouls, but Varget not so much as H4350.
The loads are around 2835 with 140's and 2925 with 130's, I would not have thought that they would be low loads, I maybe wrong.
Is it possible that what you're seeing is the copper fouling, such as it is, with clean burning powders, but it's concealed when you use one that burns dirty?
If that is the case I should see blue on my cleaning patches after powder residue is gone.
I clean with Bore Tech Eliminator and use the patch and soak method.
That maybe your problem. You're not getting through all the layers of fouling. Fouling is deposited in layers, first powder then copper. Through a bore scope this will show up as a black layer that looks like powder fouling. At this point you will not get any blue on a patch, but more aggressive scrubbing with a phosphor bronze brush will remove that powder fouling and reveal another layer of copper. Check this with your bore scope.
M-61
"I always thought the 'shooting well' was the goal."
You're right that is the goal, but it would be nice to find out the reason why heavy copper fouling with one powder but not another. The heavy powder fouling fromRL15 is not bothering me that much, I prefer it to copper.
I have just fired 3 shots with 139Scenars and H4350, heavy copper fouling from muzzle to about 10" back. I'm cleaning and then fire same number with RL15.
LCazador
You maybe right, as I said above just fired 3 shots with H4350, will clean and do the same with RL15 and see the difference.
"I always thought the 'shooting well' was the goal."
You're right that is the goal, but it would be nice to find out the reason why heavy copper fouling with one powder but not another. The heavy powder fouling fromRL15 is not bothering me that much, I prefer it to copper.
I have just fired 3 shots with 139Scenars and H4350, heavy copper fouling from muzzle to about 10" back. I'm cleaning and then fire same number with RL15.
LCazador
You maybe right, as I said above just fired 3 shots with H4350, will clean and do the same with RL15 and see the difference.
Mechdraw,
One thing to keep in mind with Reloder(R) 15 is that it contains decoppering additives, whereas I believe H4350 does not. Bofors uses a patented Bismuth/Tin complex, and those elements react with the copper which would normally be deposited, and leaves a more friable material in its place. I am not sure if some or most of the fouling you notice from our product is this resultant "fouling", which should blow out and not accumulate.
Shoot well,
Paul
One thing to keep in mind with Reloder(R) 15 is that it contains decoppering additives, whereas I believe H4350 does not. Bofors uses a patented Bismuth/Tin complex, and those elements react with the copper which would normally be deposited, and leaves a more friable material in its place. I am not sure if some or most of the fouling you notice from our product is this resultant "fouling", which should blow out and not accumulate.
Shoot well,
Paul
Paul, I thought that RE-16 had the decoppering additive, not RE-15. Correct me if I'm wrong.
thanks for all the replies.
Thank you very much Paul (Alliant Powder), this answers my question completely, thanks again.
Mechdraw.
Thank you very much Paul (Alliant Powder), this answers my question completely, thanks again.
Mechdraw.
LCazador,
You are correct, Reloder 16 contains decoppering agent, but so does Reloder 15. Actually, all of our Reloder powders contain decoppering technology except Reloder 17.
Shoot well,
Paul
You are correct, Reloder 16 contains decoppering agent, but so does Reloder 15. Actually, all of our Reloder powders contain decoppering technology except Reloder 17.
Shoot well,
Paul
I have a question for you.. I spoke to a tech-guy at Alliant a few weeks ago. He stated that RL-23 was definitely SLOWER than RL-22. However, my tests in a 7 SAUM show it to be almost exactly like H4831SC. Where do you see where RL-23 falls as far as H4831SC and RL-22. If it got any slower than RL-22, it would be right on top of IMR 7828, not H4831SC.. Thanks for your help..
Burning rates are indicative only. As your experience indicates, the relativity can occasionally change with certain components. As a rule though, don't disbelieve the manufacturer's information.
I just have to know....why not R17?
Fired 20 shots, length tests, with RL15, a very minimal amount of copper, unlike H4350.
Benjamin, our guys should be advising that Reloder 23 is similar burn speed to Reloder 22. As JohnKielly points out, we see quite a bit of difference in performance depending on the system it is being used in. All powders to some extent, and these new Bofors TZ Reloders in particular, will appear faster burning (higher P/V ratio) in one cartridge, and slower burning (lower P/V ratio) in another system. So while I say Reloder 23 is similar to Reloder 22, it is definitely different, so check the specific reloading recommendations and work up toward the max charges carefully.
Mikemci, Reloder 17 was designed without decoppering agents, and we like it just the way it is.
Shoot well (safely),
Paul
Mikemci, Reloder 17 was designed without decoppering agents, and we like it just the way it is.
Shoot well (safely),
Paul
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