Great gun, lousy shooter or lousy gun, great shooter?

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Badbob, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. VaniB

    VaniB

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    Posts that focus on the importance of wind flags take away the importance of everything else as a mitigating factor. Wind flags are only as good as your scoped rifle, handloads, and the shooter's form..... which all goes back to CONSISTENCY which I already mentioned in post#8. These individual factors are all parts of the sum total. If one of the factors is off, then the sum is adversely affected.

    How many times have you guys witnessed a newbie shooting for groups with their rifle barrel resting on the sand bag? There are soooo many variables involved in accuracy beyond the mention of wind flags. (btw; yes, I use windflags)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
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  2. gman47564

    gman47564

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    staying focused on the task at hand... use good components and equipment... learn your gun and what it likes to shoot and how it likes to be driven...chances are you will burn your first barrel out learning this... to be a really good shot you have to shoot alot !!! practice practice practice..... be patient... theirs ups and downs in the learning process... dont get discouraged... change one thing at a time with all aspects of the game so you can tell if it helped or hurt... main thing is have fun...
     
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  3. ebb

    ebb

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    Find the biggest factor in making your groups bigger and fix that first. I had a 223 bolt action that would show signs of being able to make a group. But always had one or two shots way out, My friend keep saying it your scope, for months I told him its brand new. One day he couldn't take it any more and told me he had a hood scope checker I could use. I basically put two scopes on the rifle and he was right. All my months of "fixing the load" were a waste of time. The key is knowing what the weakest link in your chain is. You will be too close to see it for a while so find a mentor that is knowledgeable and listen to him/her.
     
  4. rogina

    rogina

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    I would like to add, use windflags and practice and develope loads at 200 yards for short range benchrest.
     
  5. drover

    drover

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    A good shooter with a poor shooting rifle will generally outshoot a poor shooter with a good shooting rifle. I have seen this at numerous times at matches - Morale of the story: You can't buy points, it takes lots of practice and attention to details.

    drover
     
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  6. JSH

    JSH

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    I have found if you ask a known shooter to shoot your rig, may save a large amount of time and frustration.

    I have seen good shooters be ruined or taught bad habits by poor coaches. Once this is done, it is hard to reverse, even more so the older the shooter.

    Took me a while wrap my head around “follow through”, if your a golfer you will get it. Archery, bullseye, trap what ever follow through will play a huge part, along with how you are before ignition.

    Folks have tried to press me into coaching, my thoughts are, if I can’t do it how can I tell someone else.

    Older shooters that have bad habits, even if we do it “wrong” do it wrong the same way every time.

    Be open minded. Even better if we act as a total new shooter and no knowledge. Young new shooters from about 11- 25 seem to be the toughest to get to change, because grandpa or dad does it this way and showed me.
     
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  7. WyleWD

    WyleWD Silver $$ Contributor

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    Be patient. Don't have too high of expectations for the first year or so, but regularly attend and compete in club matches in your area. Don't put a lot of pressure on yourself for a bad day or a bad shot, everyone has them. Don't make excuses, commit to learn why things went wrong, and fix them. Enlist good advice to help. There is NO magic caliber or bullet that is going to take you from beginner to expert.

    If you want to be really good, remember that perfect practice is better than just practice. Lastly don't expect too much from a "Factory" rifle with cheap glass. JME. WD
     
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  8. Leo Smith

    Leo Smith Gold $$ Contributor

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    Simple Techniques can help also. Like proper cheek placement and trigger pull and breath control. Also forget the coffee the mornings you go shoot and see the difference. Just some tools in the Tool kit that help shrink those groupings up.
     
  9. Ccrider

    Ccrider Gold $$ Contributor

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    If you drink coffee daily, drink the morning you shoot. There is a such thing as caffeine withdrawal. One of the symptoms is jitters.
     
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  10. diego-ted

    diego-ted Silver $$ Contributor

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    Equipment, Conditions, Shooter. When I first started shooting I shot a Tikka 308 Varment barrel using Federal Gold Metal Match at an indoor range 100 Yard "No Wind" That rifle would shoot bugholes. As I took it out doors the bugholes grew! I now shoot a 284, it shoots bugholes as well indoors and out! Good Luck.

    Diego
     

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  11. Ccrider

    Ccrider Gold $$ Contributor

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    If you drink coffee daily, drink the morning you shoot. There is a such thing as caffeine withdrawal. One of the symptoms can be jitters.

    Also, one of the guys above said it best- be honest with yourself. With the right equipment, most of us can shoot a wallet group. The trick is to figure out how to consistently get the best out of your equipment.

    Do a search and look at one of my earlier threads. I ask the question how good is good? The consensus answer seemed to be agging under .2 for five five shot groups will generally be competitive, except for trigger pulling contest where conditions are not a factor.
     
  12. Badbob

    Badbob

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    I noticed that both my SD consistently went down and my groups as well tightened up. The scale is very consistent and I think that is reflected on my targets. Ok, maybe "Quantum Leap" is a little strong . . . but it was one factor that I was able to improve. Thanks for you comments! BB
     
  13. Badbob

    Badbob

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    Could you hand the dasher to an new shooter, set it up for them, give them some basic coaching, call the wind for them and have them shoot as well as you? That is what I'm asking? Thx BB
     
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  14. Badbob

    Badbob

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    This is helpful. I do share your expectations. Here is what I hope for:

    My line up:

    6mmBR: .15moa 3 shot
    6x47 PRS .20moa 3 shot
    6.5x284 BR style: .17moa 3 shot
    .270 hunting: .99 moa 3 shot

    I'm finding the road to consistent .15moa is long, lonely, and challenging. Is it me? Or is this the path all of us must walk? BB
     
  15. Badbob

    Badbob

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    Tell me more . . . at 100yards, 5mph cross wind, what would be a reasonable expansion of your group size . . . say .100" to .300"??

    Thanks for the advice . . .I'm going to find a match to attend and hopefully a local mentor to help evaluate my gear and style. BB
     
  16. Badbob

    Badbob

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    How is it different?
     
  17. ridgeway

    ridgeway Silver $$ Contributor

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    Short answer no, especially at 1k.

    Like mentioned earlier, so hard to help without seeing your rig set up and more details of it. You looking to punch holes at 100 or 1k or in between?

    If your true interest is BR, find a local mentor or head to some matches. Learn as much as you can.
     
  18. Badbob

    Badbob

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    I purposely did not post about my rigs cuz the question is basically hypothetical.

    I have 3 guns that I'm working on:

    6mmBR trued R700 action, Sightron Scope 8-32x, Jewel T (below). .265" neck, .02FB, Bart's 80g Dominator
    6x47 on a Defiance action, Vortex Razor, Trigger Tech, Bart's 105 Hammer. .273" neck
    6.5x284 on a Stiller action, Sightron Scope 8-32x, Jewel T, tracker stock, Lapua 139 Scenar, .295" neck, .169" FB

    All 3 Criterion Heavy Varmint barrels, 26". All Lapua brass.

    Yes to wind flags.

    Hope this helps! BB
    6mmBR.jpg
     
  19. Ccrider

    Ccrider Gold $$ Contributor

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    I don’t agree with this.

    I have hunted all of my life and have always been considered a good shot.

    I started benchrest shooting 1+ years ago. It is totally different. There is a learning curve involved in figuring out how to get the most accuracy out of a gun while shooting from a bench.

    All benches are not equal. Bag set up is critical. Rest setup is critical. Consistent gun handling technique is critical.

    After you get those things figured out, you still have to learn how to load top benchrest quality loads. Easy? For an elite few maybe. For most it seems this is easier said than done. Get that figured out and your move to the next hurdle.

    You then have to figure out how to tune the load-for the gun on that day. Right bullet for right gun with right powder etc...

    You are ready now to shoot the potential out of your gun. NOT!

    There is this little thing that you can not see as you sit at your perfect bench with your perfect setup-WIND.

    I guess you see my perspective about this, don’t you Alice.

    Welcome to the trip down the rabbit hole.
     
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  20. Badbob

    Badbob

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    Ah . . .ya . . .I'm right behind you down the hole. Addictive and fun? yes. Expensive? yes Challenging? yes

    Kudos to those who just bought a gun, loaded up a bread and butter loads, when to range and shot sub .25moa. I'm not that guy .. . sounds like neither are you. It is work . . .but fun work and I like the riding the learning curve--especially during a "stay at home" order. thanks for your honesty. BB
     
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