Ok, I admit I am an average shooter....but i Work hard at getting better...shooting a 6mm Norma Dasher, Norma brass, trimmed, necks skimmed, chamfered in and out, Forster fl custom honed sizing, Forster seat die. I shoot at 200, 300, 385 and 500 Meters. I have shot paper at each distance, and came up with drops that worked on the Strelok Pro app. Last match, my 300 meter shots were low, all others were on. So I went out earlier this week, shot one shot on the same target at each distance.....200-385 meters were a flat line (wind , but almost 0 horizontal) but at 500, shot was 3.25" low, dialed up .50 MOA, hit 3" high....setting was 7.5MOA originally...I understand conditions effect it, but temp, humidity and pressure was less than 5% different than match....any suggestions, help or criticism will be a big
Drops at distance change....
- Thread starter rsbhunter
- Start date
3” at 500 yards could be a load that’s not that settled or a facing wind picking up or a cloud moving over the sun or any number of other factors.
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
For starters one shot at each distance is a small sample. If your shooting half inch gun it is a 2.5 inch gun at best at 500 yds. Wind in your face will often, not always, make you shoot a bit low. The wind effect at 500 vs 385 would be more. Sounds very possible to me. What is your ES. If it's large, say over 20 that could be an added factor. Biggest thing the sample is too small to get excited . Sounds to me most likely a result of conditions. I see no mention of flags which means your shooting with one hand tied behind your back.
There was one flag at the 500 meter target....but not the others....I am not shooting br or f class, so I do not have the equipment to do these tests properly...I guess what made me wonder what was going on is that the single shots at 2,3,385 meters honestly didn't have at most .100 variation in vertical....I had done groups at these ranges previously, and they were good...guess I just need to improve my knowledge of ballistics and environmental effects , then shoot a lot more...rsbhunter
Fast14riot
Gold $$ Contributor
Shooting on a big bore silhouette range I see, I too shoot matches on a silhouette range. How are the burms laid out? Any adjacent burms to each line? I can tell you what the wind is like at every station on each burm at the range I shoot, i.e. turkey 1 (385m) is up against a separation burm and the wind swirls, but I'm shooting over the top of the chicken line (200m) so I watch the grass/weeds on top of that burm for mid range wind.
Sounds like the error is still within the variables of atmospherics. Take some surveyors tape and stakes, put them on top of each burm and half way to each one. You'll learn a lot from just that.
Sounds like the error is still within the variables of atmospherics. Take some surveyors tape and stakes, put them on top of each burm and half way to each one. You'll learn a lot from just that.
Yes, it is big bore silhouette range, chicken and pig (200,300) are parallel to to each other , though staggered right to left. Turkey is angled to range maybe 15 degrees, and off to the right of 200,300 berms. Ram is again straight on and to the left of all other berms....I'm sure it could be me and the atmospherics.....I expect one hole groups, even though I'm not capable of them, well, maybe once in a great while...The match is called the "chicken match" we shoot 3" square steel targets at 200, and 300 Meters, 4"x5"@ 385, and 5"x8" @ 500 M. A lot of fun...I am shooting a Savage 12 lrvp rebarreled in 6 Norma Dasher, bbl by PVA, and Sightron scope. I am working on consistency of shot to shot....rsbhunter
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
Conditions, conditions, conditions. A lot more good shooting rifles on the line now as opposed to 10 yrs ago and more shooters doing many things correctly. But, he who can read conditions is who I will put my money on everytime Great idea from Fast14riot about stakes and ribbons so you can see what is going on. As far as the 500 meter flag, your bullet is already there, doesn't mean a lot often.To me most times, first condition your bullet encounters is the most important.
Thanks to all of you, this is the kind of info I was looking for....please keep posting as I will try to absorb everything I can... I might make up some stakes and "flags" that I can place at different places to see how the wind (s.e. New Mexico, ALWAYS wind) effects the flags...Still working on technique, it is easy to mess up, we get 2 minutes for a 5 shot string, which sounds like a lot, but I'm new to the matches, and nerves play a roll.....Again, Thanks to all who took time to help....rsbhunter
Fast14riot
Gold $$ Contributor
Sounds like a fun match. We shoot one called the No-Bull, tiny targets like rimfire size at full bore distance, golf balls at 500, squirrel silhouettes painted brown (those can be invisible!), and you have to switch back and forth between distances on a stage as your spotter calls the next target!
I have notes on the prevalent wind directions for each station at each burm (also for each rifle). I will often times show up early and watch the wind for an hour and stay after a match as well. See if you can go on a non match day and set up some flags and observe. Take notes. If you have an anemometer, take note of what the flag looks like at a certain wind speed. Write this all down.
I have notes on the prevalent wind directions for each station at each burm (also for each rifle). I will often times show up early and watch the wind for an hour and stay after a match as well. See if you can go on a non match day and set up some flags and observe. Take notes. If you have an anemometer, take note of what the flag looks like at a certain wind speed. Write this all down.
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CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
So you're individual shots were +/-3/4 moa at 500yd. That is not bad at all. Try shooting 10-20 shots at 500 to determine your normal dispersion, and you may also find the group center is not dead on such that the velocity should be tweaked in the ballistic calculator. I would never trust a single range session to true the ballistics.
I agree with this info, I have done some grouping at all the distances, but only 3 Shot groups....think I'll pick a fairly calm morning, and shoot some higher round count groups....need to be early am, temps this week in 99-100 temp, next week 104 degrees.....Again, Thanks for all the advice...thinking my scores might be going up...rsbhunter
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
I am not predominantly a Long Range Shooter, (100/200 yard group and score), but I do know a lot about reading conditions.
To do any serious accuracy tuning, you need something to tell you what the wind is doing. If for any other reason, to avoid shooting in a reversal. Just ribbons on a stick are better than nothing, placed at 75, 200, 300, and 400. The simple truth is, the majority of shooters do not fully understand how the wind affects a bullets path.
That is why many articles in magazines testing rifles and cartridges are useless. The usual phrase is....”we did not have flags, but the wind was light”. They will post pictures of groups declaring one load superior when in fact conditions are skewing they results.
An interesting thing we learned from shooting 500 meters in “Fly Matches” was how much vertical was involved in shooting level or aiming just 36 inches below.
At those matches, the have the target at about 5 feet off of the ground, with a sighted hung about three feet below. If you hit dead on on the slighter, you could expect as much as 2 to 3 inches high when you went to the record. Several of us asked if the slighter could be on the same level as the record target, but the logistics of the range would not allow it.
Just remember. As the billet travels to the target, everything affects it’s path.
To do any serious accuracy tuning, you need something to tell you what the wind is doing. If for any other reason, to avoid shooting in a reversal. Just ribbons on a stick are better than nothing, placed at 75, 200, 300, and 400. The simple truth is, the majority of shooters do not fully understand how the wind affects a bullets path.
That is why many articles in magazines testing rifles and cartridges are useless. The usual phrase is....”we did not have flags, but the wind was light”. They will post pictures of groups declaring one load superior when in fact conditions are skewing they results.
An interesting thing we learned from shooting 500 meters in “Fly Matches” was how much vertical was involved in shooting level or aiming just 36 inches below.
At those matches, the have the target at about 5 feet off of the ground, with a sighted hung about three feet below. If you hit dead on on the slighter, you could expect as much as 2 to 3 inches high when you went to the record. Several of us asked if the slighter could be on the same level as the record target, but the logistics of the range would not allow it.
Just remember. As the billet travels to the target, everything affects it’s path.
Fast14riot
Gold $$ Contributor
My point about knowing the wind at every station is because shooting on a silhouette range is like shooting on 4 different ranges, even though the temp, humidity, pressure is the same, wind and light will be different at each one.
I never thought of it that way, but that is EXACTLY right. Every berm is at a different place, so that the wind direction affects the bullet in varying degrees....even if it was steady, which it isn't , and changes the effect on the bullet.....add in that the shooter changes position each stage on the firing line(which I didn't in my test) and the variables compound. So, as stated previously, the information you all have given, has honestly brought to light how much I need to study, and look at the "conditions"a lot more closely. Wish everyone's knowledge could be compiled in a book that I and anyone else , could read over and over.....The people on this forum are a perfect example of the knowledge that is prevalent here...THANK YOU AGAIN....rsbhunter
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