Bullet Sorting?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by wkdickinson, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. wkdickinson

    wkdickinson

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    OK, I just purchased a box or 500 Berger 6mm 105 Hybrids. How should I sort them - by weight, by bearing surface length, by both, does it matter?
     
  2. damoncali

    damoncali Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,766
    Define "matter". I wouldn't bother with anything other than OAL sorting. The weights are all going to be pretty much the same. Same with base to ogive. Boattail lengths are very consistent too. It's the nose that varies - sorting can help even out the BC variation.

    I don't sort any of my 600 yard F TR bullets at all. I do ok.
     
    Ned Ludd likes this.
  3. Falfan2017

    Falfan2017 Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    378
    Bto will not all be the same. Hybrids I’ve measured vary 5k or so between extremes. I believe this matters more than oal. You’ll quickly find if you ask 5 people their opinion on sorting you’ll have 5 answers.
     
    ckaberna likes this.
  4. SPJ

    SPJ Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    2,581
    We just had this conversation :cool:
     
    Bc'z and Puzzaz01 like this.
  5. Puzzaz01

    Puzzaz01 Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    588
    Yep we did, and just like Lincoln stated if you ask 5 people you'll get 5 different answers. If you wanna go over board come on over. I check length sort, diameter sort, base to ogive sort, bearing area sort and then I wonder is it worth it?

    Darrin
     
    Shooter13 and SPJ like this.
  6. Puzzaz01

    Puzzaz01 Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    588
    On a separate note: I loaded up 100 rounds of Berger 140's 2 weeks ago and never checked the ogive bearing area ( it was from a different lot #) my mistake. After I loaded 85 of them I thought wow I never checked my seating depth and on a Wilson arbor press it doesn't change but guess what on this lot of bullets I was .006 off of my go to load. I ran that load on a Saturday morning in open F class and shot a 599, would all that measuring helped ..... I doubt it. Just makes you wonder how much it's worth.

    Darrin
     
    Shooter13, Ccrider, SPJ and 1 other person like this.
  7. Bc'z

    Bc'z Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    1,081
    Wasn't it just yesterday?
     
    Shooter13, SPJ and Puzzaz01 like this.
  8. Bojo

    Bojo

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Messages:
    85
    I started sorting this past spring, makes me feel "special". Now I can tall my shot consistently miss in smaller groups. I did seem to have a few really wild shots one or two per match and I just can't but help and think my triming and points skills (started spring of 18) needed work.
     
    big bronsen likes this.
  9. JMayo

    JMayo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    349
    I weigh and separate. Ones on the far ends are sighters.
    When it comes time to make bullets I measure and keep the alikes together, (groups of 5)
     
    Bc'z likes this.
  10. JohnKielly

    JohnKielly Australia, not Austria Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    861
    How do you measure, COAL or base to ogive?
     
  11. Puzzaz01

    Puzzaz01 Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    588
    I sort Base to ogive and over all bullet length. If you don't sort Bullet over all length prior to seating you will find a large variation in coal. I sort bullet over all length just for piece of mind. Can you see it on paper, probably not.

    Darrin
     
    Bc'z likes this.
  12. JohnKielly

    JohnKielly Australia, not Austria Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    861
    She's all good. I wondered what could be achieved if you sorted COAL only or COAL first.

    Ever thought of doing a base to ogive sort first, then meplat trimming each batch and then measuring to see if there's any discernible difference in COAL? :rolleyes:
     
  13. Puzzaz01

    Puzzaz01 Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    588
    Nope too much time in what I'm doing now and it works excellent for me.

    Darrin
     
  14. ckaberna

    ckaberna Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2017
    Messages:
    271
  15. PatMiles

    PatMiles Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Nah, it was this morning!:D
     
    Bc'z and SPJ like this.
  16. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,877
    Why is it so popular to use the case head as the reference to any measurement to some point on the bullet?

    Case heads are typically not against the bolt face when the round fires. A few to several thousandths clearance is the norm.

    The case shoulder is against the chamber shoulder when the round fires so it's a much better reference, in my opinion. Unless all the cases' headspace is the same.
     
  17. Bc'z

    Bc'z Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    1,081

    Because it's the bottom of the cartridge and one needs a place to start all measurements from.
    So if all shoulders are set to standard length
    Measured from case head to shoulder, then it's safe to assume all measurements will be equal if bullets are sorted by base to ogive
    Giving one a very consistent cartridge to cartridge measurement.
    Now do cartridges have headspace or do chambers?
    My understanding as per the teachings of
    Sir F Guffy, the chamber does.
     
    SPJ likes this.
  18. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,205
    The base-to-ogive (BTO) length of the bullet doesn't necessarily have much to do with cartridge base-to-ogive (CBTO) measurement. The seating die stem pushes bullets from a specific contact point on the ogive slightly below the meplat down to whatever setting the die mic has dialed in; it doesn't "know" that the bullet has BTO variance below the contact point. For that reason, unsorted bullets with significant BTO variance can easily be seated to very consistent CBTO, but you will likely end up with significant variance in the amount of bullet shank/boattail down in the neck/case.

    The best approach to achieve uniform seating depth is to sort bullets using something like Bob Green's Comparator tool, which sorts bullets based on length of the region between the point on the ogive just above the bearing surface where the bullet first contacts the rifling, and farther out on the ogive where the seater die stem contact point is located.

    As a more general observation, bullet sorting should largely depend on what type of shooting you intend to do. For example, many BR shooters swear by sorting bullets at a minimum by BTO, and sometimes several other methods as well. As an F-TR shooter, I don't find BTO sorting to be very useful based on my precision requirements, which are not the same as BR shooters. I sort bullets by OAL largely for the purpose of pointing them, which slightly improves BC and is useful for the changing wind conditions often observed during the long (20+ shots) strings of fire in F-Class. So match your bullet sorting approach to the type of shooting you intend to do. Talking with experienced shooters in your chosen discipline will be the best way to find out what approaches they are using successfully.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 7:42 AM
    ckaberna, Bc'z and mikeeg02 like this.
  19. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,877
    All of this would be mitigated if seater stems touched bullets at their diameter where the chamber throat's rifling does. That place is typically a couple thousandths less than bullet diameter.
     
  20. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,877
    Only if the bullet's ogive reference diameter is where it touches the rifling. And all cases headspacing on their shoulders have the same headspace.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 7:25 AM
    Bc'z likes this.

Share This Page