450/400 NE Data

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by terry6mmbr, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

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    Wondering if anyone here has software or reloading data resources to find data to load a 300gr jacketed bullet in this old timer cartridge....would appreciate if I could get pointed in the right direction.
     
  2. Zero333

    Zero333 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Yes I'll help, but I need to know which 450/400...

    2-3/8" <-- I think this one is black powder ???
    3"
    3-1/4"

    And what bullet weight ??
     
  3. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

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    300gr.......450-300 NE 3"

    the one Ruger chambered the #1 in.
     
  4. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

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    .450-400 NE 3"
     
  5. Zero333

    Zero333 Silver $$ Contributor

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    This a data generated with Quickload, so forgive me for not having real world data.

    Data is comprised of MAX / NEAR MAX loads generating 39,000 psi of chamber pressure. With the exception of RL-25 which reached 37,500 psi with a case fill of 106 %.
    (QL shows 40,611 psi as MAX chamber pressure for this cartridge). Please reduce these powder charge weights and work up accordingly.

    First column = Powder name
    Second = Case fill %
    Third = Charge Weight in Grains gr
    Fourth = Charge weight in Grams gm
    Fifth = Velocity in FPS
    Sixth = Propellant burned %
    Seventh = Chamber Pressure PSI
    Eighth = Muzzle pressure psi
    Ninth = Barrel time milliseconds ms
    ====================================================

    Cartridge : .450/400 N.E. 3''
    Bullet : .411", 300, Hornady SP InterLock 41051
    Useable Case Capaci: 104.495 grain H2O = 6.785 cm³
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.750 inch = 95.25 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 39000 psi, or 268 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 106 %
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    ReloadSwiss RS 60 89.2 90.2 5.84 2600 98.6 39000 9489 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma MRP 99.9 100.5 6.51 2587 91.1 39000 9891 1.328 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S365 95.8 91.8 5.95 2586 98.9 39000 9122 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-17 88.4 89.3 5.79 2584 97.7 39000 9301 1.326 ! Near Maximum !
    Elcho 17 88.4 89.3 5.79 2584 97.7 39000 9301 1.326 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 70 92.1 94.5 6.12 2566 94.1 39000 9444 1.326 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 62 91.2 92.0 5.96 2560 96.0 39000 9132 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA15 101.4 98.7 6.40 2555 89.2 39000 9481 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 101.4 98.7 6.40 2555 89.2 39000 9481 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-22 101.4 98.7 6.40 2555 89.2 39000 9481 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP15 104.1 99.2 6.42 2553 88.9 39000 9469 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester WXR 104.1 99.2 6.42 2553 88.9 39000 9469 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N560 100.9 99.3 6.43 2551 85.8 39000 9546 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate MAGPRO 102.0 104.5 6.77 2542 83.6 39000 9520 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-25 106.0 101.6 6.58 2538 92.5 37508 9670 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4350 92.7 89.3 5.78 2538 95.7 39000 8988 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 511 89.8 92.1 5.97 2535 93.2 39000 9015 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter 92.7 92.3 5.98 2534 93.2 39000 9003 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP 92.2 87.9 5.69 2533 95.5 39000 8858 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 92.3 87.9 5.70 2533 95.5 39000 8856 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414 87.4 89.0 5.77 2526 92.1 39000 8904 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760 87.4 89.0 5.77 2526 92.1 39000 8904 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 89.2 87.8 5.69 2526 95.3 39000 8889 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4831 97.1 89.6 5.80 2522 95.8 39000 8744 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 52 84.6 84.2 5.45 2521 97.4 39000 8591 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 SSC 99.1 98.0 6.35 2520 85.8 39000 9195 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 104.7 98.0 6.35 2520 85.8 39000 9195 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 12 104.5 107.4 6.96 2520 85.7 39000 9464 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 11 85.4 84.9 5.50 2520 97.0 39000 8589 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 517 104.6 107.6 6.97 2519 85.6 39000 9463 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 95.0 88.6 5.74 2518 97.6 39000 8436 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 3100 102.6 98.8 6.41 2517 93.4 39000 8883 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Big Game 82.6 84.8 5.49 2515 96.9 39000 8507 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R905 102.4 97.9 6.34 2513 86.2 39000 8994 1.336 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Magnum 102.0 107.0 6.93 2512 88.8 39000 9175 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-19 96.7 93.2 6.04 2512 89.2 39000 8892 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2213 99.6 96.9 6.28 2506 85.7 39000 9040 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 97.5 93.9 6.08 2506 89.2 39000 8827 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S385 97.9 95.4 6.18 2502 91.1 39000 8760 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2209 96.0 92.0 5.96 2501 88.7 39000 8780 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP3 84.8 82.6 5.35 2498 98.1 39000 8417 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203 old 84.8 82.6 5.35 2498 98.1 39000 8417 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895 81.3 78.3 5.08 2497 97.2 39000 8424 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 3031 81.5 73.4 4.76 2497 100.0 39000 7750 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R903 86.7 82.6 5.35 2491 97.8 39000 8339 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 204 91.7 91.2 5.91 2491 89.0 39000 8627 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 ~approximation 94.6 91.2 5.91 2491 89.0 39000 8627 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA4 94.6 91.2 5.91 2491 89.0 39000 8627 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203B 82.6 79.6 5.15 2490 97.1 39000 8342 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 92.6 90.5 5.87 2488 91.7 39000 8560 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 ~approximation 82.1 79.1 5.12 2487 96.5 39000 8340 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-15 82.1 79.1 5.12 2487 96.5 39000 8340 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA11 82.1 79.1 5.12 2487 96.5 39000 8340 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4320 84.1 79.7 5.16 2482 97.0 39000 8098 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N165 103.2 98.3 6.37 2482 90.1 39000 8490 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4064 84.0 79.2 5.13 2481 99.9 39000 8020 1.407 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S355 86.0 81.1 5.25 2478 97.6 39000 8227 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H380 84.0 82.6 5.35 2477 95.0 39000 8368 1.369 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester Supreme 780 96.5 98.0 6.35 2477 88.9 39000 8518 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AP 2214 104.1 104.1 6.74 2475 84.5 39000 8908 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 98.1 95.6 6.19 2471 85.7 39000 8524 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 102.1 95.6 6.19 2471 85.7 39000 8524 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S070 90.8 86.5 5.61 2467 92.4 39000 8393 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 516 80.5 82.6 5.35 2467 94.9 39000 8203 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 102.6 100.8 6.53 2466 82.5 39000 8647 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 50 82.1 82.3 5.33 2466 95.2 39000 8178 1.362 ! Near Maximum !
    Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 83.3 82.8 5.37 2463 95.1 39000 8144 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4350 93.1 87.8 5.69 2462 91.0 39000 8234 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4350 91.4 87.6 5.67 2462 91.2 39000 8227 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N540 81.7 79.6 5.16 2461 99.7 39000 7811 1.366 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N150 91.0 82.7 5.36 2459 98.7 39000 7864 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S062 82.8 77.6 5.03 2458 98.3 39000 7920 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R904 95.0 90.2 5.84 2458 87.5 39000 8275 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 85.2 82.8 5.36 2456 92.5 39000 8039 1.336 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S065 89.2 84.0 5.45 2452 93.9 39000 8159 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2208 83.7 78.3 5.07 2451 96.3 39000 7943 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon VARGET 84.0 78.3 5.07 2451 96.3 39000 7943 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S071 106.0 96.6 6.26 2449 92.1 35950 8644 1.412 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N135 86.9 75.9 4.92 2448 100.0 39000 7280 1.374 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 87.0 83.2 5.39 2448 93.9 39000 7975 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4064 84.6 76.9 4.99 2447 96.6 39000 7851 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N160 101.7 93.9 6.09 2444 87.2 39000 8143 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N140 81.3 76.8 4.98 2439 99.8 39000 7418 1.366 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R902 81.6 75.8 4.91 2438 98.3 39000 7755 1.386 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP7 88.0 83.2 5.39 2437 91.2 39000 8082 1.370 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R907 88.0 83.2 5.39 2437 91.2 39000 8082 1.370 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4007 SSC 85.2 83.3 5.40 2437 91.2 39000 8076 1.370 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S361 94.3 96.8 6.27 2429 86.2 39000 8081 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
    =========================================================

    If you have a specific projectile you want me to run the QL data with I'll be happy to do so.
     
  6. Zero333

    Zero333 Silver $$ Contributor

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    If you want any other QL data for anything you can think of, feel free to PM me. I like playing with QL
    :)
     
    Bc'z and thekriebles like this.
  7. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
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    Thanks Zero.....really looking forward to trying some of these loads (reduced a bit to start).

    Should be a fun hog gun.
     
  8. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
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    Is it possible to run this cartridge using the Barnes .411 300gr TSX?
     
  9. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
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    Thanks in advance, I really do appreciate it!
     
  10. Zero333

    Zero333 Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
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    You very welcome. Just a heads up,... I have not updated my QL to the latest version, so newer powders like RL-16 - RL-26 and few others are not listed.

    As I mentioned before... These loads generate (theoretically) 39,000 psi, So I'm not sure if your Ruger #1 can handle higher pressures in this chambering because the brass might be the limiting factor.

    Using this combination for hogs is like using a sledge hammer to squish bugs.
    ================================================

    Cartridge : .450/400 N.E. 3''
    Bullet : .411, 300, Barnes 'TSX' FB 41130
    Useable Case Capaci: 97.977 grain H2O = 6.362 cm³
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.750 inch = 95.25 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 39000 psi, or 268 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 106 %
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    145 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    ReloadSwiss RS 60 90.5 85.7 5.55 2562 98.0 39000 8920 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S365 97.2 87.3 5.66 2551 98.5 39000 8588 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-17 89.7 85.0 5.51 2546 97.1 39000 8736 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
    Elcho 17 89.7 85.0 5.51 2546 97.1 39000 8736 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma MRP 101.3 95.5 6.19 2544 90.0 39000 9230 1.324 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 70 93.4 89.8 5.82 2524 93.2 39000 8828 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 62 92.6 87.6 5.68 2524 95.3 39000 8571 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA15 102.8 93.8 6.08 2512 88.0 39000 8839 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 102.8 93.8 6.08 2512 88.0 39000 8839 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-22 102.8 93.8 6.08 2512 88.0 39000 8839 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP15 105.5 94.2 6.11 2510 87.8 39000 8828 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester WXR 105.5 94.2 6.11 2510 87.8 39000 8828 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N560 102.3 94.4 6.11 2506 84.6 39000 8878 1.328 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4350 94.1 85.0 5.50 2502 95.0 39000 8430 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP 93.6 83.6 5.42 2498 94.9 39000 8312 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 93.7 83.7 5.42 2498 94.9 39000 8310 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 511 91.0 87.6 5.68 2496 92.3 39000 8436 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate MAGPRO 103.4 99.3 6.43 2496 82.3 39000 8839 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter 94.1 87.7 5.68 2495 92.3 39000 8424 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 90.6 83.6 5.42 2491 94.6 39000 8348 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4831 98.6 85.3 5.53 2487 95.1 39000 8209 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 52 85.9 80.1 5.19 2487 96.9 39000 8076 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414 88.7 84.7 5.49 2487 91.2 39000 8327 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760 88.7 84.7 5.49 2487 91.2 39000 8327 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 11 86.6 80.8 5.24 2484 96.4 39000 8067 1.346 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 96.4 84.2 5.46 2482 97.0 39000 7918 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 3100 104.2 94.1 6.10 2481 92.6 39000 8322 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Big Game 83.9 80.7 5.23 2479 96.3 39000 7987 1.346 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 SSC 100.4 93.1 6.03 2474 84.5 39000 8531 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 106.0 93.0 6.03 2472 84.4 38906 8520 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-19 98.0 88.5 5.74 2470 88.2 39000 8293 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 12 105.7 101.9 6.61 2470 84.2 39000 8760 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R905 103.7 93.0 6.03 2469 85.0 39000 8363 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 517 105.9 102.1 6.61 2468 84.0 39000 8755 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 3031 82.8 69.9 4.53 2466 100.0 39000 7319 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S385 99.4 90.8 5.88 2465 90.2 39000 8193 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 98.8 89.2 5.78 2464 88.1 39000 8231 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Magnum 103.3 101.6 6.58 2464 87.4 39000 8514 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP3 86.0 78.5 5.09 2462 97.6 39000 7912 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203 old 86.0 78.5 5.09 2462 97.6 39000 7912 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895 82.5 74.5 4.83 2462 96.6 39000 7913 1.366 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2213 100.8 92.0 5.96 2461 84.4 39000 8391 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2209 97.2 87.4 5.66 2458 87.6 39000 8175 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-25 106.0 95.2 6.17 2456 90.4 36012 8851 1.370 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R903 88.0 78.6 5.09 2455 97.3 39000 7834 1.376 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203B 83.7 75.6 4.90 2453 96.6 39000 7833 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 93.9 86.1 5.58 2450 90.8 39000 8006 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA11 83.2 75.2 4.87 2450 95.9 39000 7827 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-15 83.2 75.2 4.87 2450 95.9 39000 7827 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 ~approximation 83.2 75.2 4.87 2450 95.9 39000 7827 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 ~approximation 95.9 86.6 5.61 2449 87.9 39000 8043 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA4 95.9 86.6 5.61 2449 87.9 39000 8043 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 204 92.9 86.6 5.61 2449 87.9 39000 8043 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4064 85.2 75.3 4.88 2448 99.7 39000 7560 1.403 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.6 81.0 75.4 4.89 2446 99.1 39000 7519 1.381 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4320 85.2 75.7 4.91 2445 96.4 39000 7596 1.336 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S355 87.2 77.1 4.99 2442 97.1 39000 7728 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N165 104.6 93.4 6.05 2440 89.0 39000 7913 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H380 85.1 78.5 5.09 2438 94.3 39000 7841 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester Supreme 780 97.7 93.0 6.03 2433 87.8 39000 7932 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2206H 80.0 72.3 4.68 2431 96.5 39000 7611 1.362 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 9 80.9 75.4 4.89 2430 96.5 39000 7578 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 516 81.6 78.5 5.08 2428 94.2 39000 7685 1.353 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 50 83.3 78.2 5.07 2428 94.5 39000 7662 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S070 92.1 82.3 5.33 2428 91.5 39000 7850 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 103.4 90.7 5.88 2427 84.5 39000 7922 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 99.4 90.7 5.88 2427 84.5 39000 7922 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N540 82.8 75.6 4.90 2427 99.4 39000 7367 1.362 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AP 2214 105.3 98.7 6.40 2425 83.0 39000 8230 1.336 ! Near Maximum !
    Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 84.4 78.7 5.10 2424 94.4 39000 7626 1.368 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N150 92.3 78.6 5.10 2424 98.3 39000 7396 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4350 92.7 83.2 5.39 2423 90.3 39000 7687 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4350 94.5 83.5 5.41 2423 90.1 39000 7692 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 202 80.4 71.5 4.63 2422 99.5 39000 7233 1.366 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S062 83.9 73.7 4.78 2422 97.9 39000 7445 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 103.9 95.7 6.20 2421 81.2 39000 8017 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N135 88.2 72.2 4.68 2417 100.0 39000 6872 1.368 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R904 96.2 85.7 5.55 2416 86.5 39000 7708 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 86.3 78.6 5.09 2415 91.6 39000 7503 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon VARGET 85.1 74.4 4.82 2414 95.7 39000 7449 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2208 84.8 74.4 4.82 2414 95.7 39000 7449 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S065 90.4 79.9 5.18 2413 93.2 39000 7640 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 7 80.1 77.6 5.03 2412 94.2 39000 7550 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 88.1 79.1 5.13 2410 93.1 39000 7462 1.345 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4064 85.7 73.1 4.74 2409 96.0 39000 7361 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 201 81.1 71.6 4.64 2408 97.9 39000 7370 1.382 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N140 82.4 73.0 4.73 2406 99.7 39000 6993 1.362 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N160 103.0 89.2 5.78 2402 86.2 39000 7579 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R902 82.7 72.0 4.67 2402 97.9 39000 7290 1.391 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP7 89.2 79.1 5.12 2396 90.4 39000 7553 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R907 89.2 79.1 5.12 2396 90.4 39000 7553 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4007 SSC 86.4 79.1 5.13 2396 90.4 39000 7548 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
    ================================================
     
  11. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
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    You know what they say....there's no such thing as too dead!

    Once again, thanks for the help.
     
  12. Zero333

    Zero333 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Anytime ! Good luck with everything.

    If possible... after you get things sorted, maybe shoot us a update or PM me. I'm always curious as to how the Quickload data compared.
     
  13. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
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    Zero.....thanks once again for the help, the data helped a lot. I opted to try the IMR4831 data to start and right off the bat the rifle load combos were giving me sub 1" groups (and a bruised shoulder) 300gr bullet @ 2500fps should be a winner!
     
  14. Zero333

    Zero333 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the update Terry. Sub 1" group with a big bore is phenomenal !

    Mind sharing the details of the load and rifle ?? I'm curious how close the QL prediction was.
     
  15. Kurz

    Kurz

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
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    952
    Here is an article from 2004 with some interesting variations to consider:

    From: Powder Keg, R. Seyfreid, Handloader #230, August 2004

    "Q: I am trying to get loading data for the .450-400 3-inch Nitro. I am shooting both cast bullets and 400-grain Woodleigh bullets in Bertram cases. I also need to know about the Dacron filler. Do I need it in the .400?"

    A: There are two variations of the .450-.400 x 3-inch cartridge. The "trade" model had a thin (.040-inch) rim and normally used 60 grains of cordite with a 400-grain bullet. Jeffrey used a thick rim and only 55 grains of cordite. Either one likes the 1.19 multiplier of Reloder 15, with a Federal 215 primer as a duplicate to the original full-power loads. That is to say, 1.19 times the 55- or 60-grain cordite charge. Normally, you do not need Dacron in the .400s. However, if you experience any form of hangfire (this will probably be as minute as your thinking you can hear the hammer hit before ignition), add 3 grains of standard polyester pillow stuffing over the powder. This load is compatible with the Woodleigh softpoint bullet. If you use their solids, reduce the powder charge 2 grains.

    For cast bullet shooting in the .400s, we discover a wonderful phenomena in cordite double rifles. Against all conventional wisdom, they will usually regulate perfectly with a very reduced load, by simply pretending they were black-powder rifles. Now we turn to the nitro-for-black-powder formula. The 3-inch case was not a black-powder round, but its 3¼-inch older brother was. It normally used 100 to 110 grains of black and 230- to 260-grain bullets. Hodgdon 4198 is the powder of choice. The formula is now 40 percent of the black powder weight.

    Load with a standard Large Rifle (not magnum) primer and begin with 42 grains of 4198. The nitro-for-black loads must use Dacron; 10 grains will be correct, over the powder. Add a hard 230- to 260-grain, .41 Magnum pistol bullet and you will have a nice, friendly deer load. Most rifles regulate perfectly, although it is often necessary to use the 200-yard sight leaf to get correct elevation at 100 yards."

    Note: In Miniature Black Powder Express Cartridges, Handloader #225, Seyfried states the Dacron must fill the case and not be tamped down on the powder as a wad.


    From: Reloading the Nitro Express, R. Seyfreid, Handloader #202, December 1999

    "Unlike the earlier black-powder rifles, most nitro rifles will have the service load stamped on the barrel flats as part of the proof marks. This usually specifies a maximum load of cordite and bullet weight. One usually encounters something like "cordite 70-bullet 480 max."

    "Slug the bores and make chamber casts before you buy components. Finally be sure you are indeed working with a "full-cordite" rifle. Many unknowing or unscrupulous sellers call every British express rifle a "Nitro Express". If the barrels do not show the cordite charge in the proof marks, they are probably made for black powder."

    "The correct powder for the nitros is also surprisingly simple. Most who are serious reloaders for the nitros have distilled the selection to one powder: Alliant Reloder 15. You will see and hear references to other powders; IMR-3031 and some of the very slow ones like 4831 have been used. In my experience IMR-3031 has a shrewish temperament in the big cases, demonstrating rapid pressure rises. The slow powders have blown the sides out of more than one set of fine double barrels. No one has a precise answer to "why?". Because it has happened, I treat the slow powders like the standard medical formula, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." Reply: "Do not do this!"

    "Returning to our chosen fuel, RL-15, its use and perfection was invented by none less than Federal Cartridge for their own .470 Nitro cartridges. It is a mild-mannered, delightful powder that re-creates original ballistics, right across the spectrum from .450-400 to .600, using the same conversion formula. That is, multiply the original cordite charge by 1.19 to substitute RL-15. In almost every instance, caliber and rifle, the velocity, with the correct Woodleigh bullet, will be right in the Kynoch window. (It is a good idea to begin two grains below the calculated charge, just to be on the safe side.)"

    "The one compromise with RL-15 is that it takes up less space in the cavernous cases than did the original spaghetti-like cordite. To obtain perfectly crisp ignition, one must add a small ball of Dacron (polyester) fiber filler. Most .40- and .45-caliber rounds want four or five grains, while the .470 and .500 use six or seven grains and the .577 and .600 take seven or eight. Loads without the filler can demonstrate minute, but disconcerting, hangfires. Those with fillers are crisp with uncannily uniform velocities."

    .450/.400-3 inch - 60 grs. Cordite - 400-gr. bullet - 2125 fps - 71.4 grs. RL-15
    .450/400-3¼ inch - 60 grs. Cordite - 400-gr. bullet - 2150 fps - 71.4 grs. RL-15
     
    Zero333 likes this.
  16. terry6mmbr

    terry6mmbr

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    sorry it took so lon to reply....i loaded 80gr 82.5gr and 85gr of IMR4831 with the Barnes 300gr TSX .....he 85gr loading gave me a velocity of 2425fps out of my Ruger #1 Tropical with a 24" barrel
     
  17. Zero333

    Zero333 Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,074
    Thanks for the update.
    Looks like Quickload was off by 53 fps. That's close enough since there are so many variables affecting pressure / velocity.

    ==========================================================

    Cartridge : .450/400 N.E. 3''
    Bullet : .411, 300, Barnes 'TSX' FB 41130
    Useable Case Capaci: 97.993 grain H2O = 6.363 cm³
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.750 inch = 95.25 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
    Powder : IMR 4831

    Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
    incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
    CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

    Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
    % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

    -20.0 79 68.00 1982 2618 21647 6149 83.7 1.722
    -18.0 81 69.70 2031 2748 22905 6371 85.0 1.681
    -16.0 83 71.40 2080 2881 24242 6590 86.3 1.642
    -14.0 84 73.10 2129 3019 25665 6806 87.6 1.604
    -12.0 86 74.80 2178 3161 27178 7019 88.8 1.566
    -10.0 88 76.50 2228 3307 28789 7227 90.0 1.530
    -08.0 90 78.20 2278 3456 30505 7431 91.1 1.494
    -06.0 92 79.90 2328 3609 32321 7628 92.2 1.458
    -04.0 94 81.60 2378 3766 34269 7819 93.2 1.424
    -02.0 96 83.30 2428 3927 36347 8003 94.1 1.390 ! Near Maximum !
    +00.0 98 85.00 2478 4091 38575 8179 95.0 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
    +02.0 100 86.70 2529 4259 40943 8346 95.8 1.325 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
    +04.0 102 88.40 2579 4430 43476 8504 96.5 1.293 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
    ==============================================

    85 gr IMR-4831 = 2,478 fps.
    4,091 ft/lbs energy.
    38,575 psi chamber pressure.
     

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