38 special cases resizing inconsistant

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by ba_50, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. ba_50

    ba_50

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    When full length sizing using rcbs die, they sometimes won't go all the way into a s&w cylinder. Plenty of lube.

    Die problem?
     
  2. rwj

    rwj Gold $$ Contributor

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    Maybe... have you successfully used the die before? How was the die setup? Is there a bulge near the case head on the rounds that won’t fully chamber?
     
  3. ebb

    ebb

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    I get one or two out of a hundred that are tight, with my RCBS dies. Usually I can force them in and after fired they drop right out. I would be interested in the solution to this also.
     
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  4. ba_50

    ba_50

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    The dies were bought new. They are tight in the back of the case. The shell holder was against the die base.
     
  5. T-shooter

    T-shooter

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    After expanding the case mouth to insert the bullet, are you crimping the bell mouth back out smooth again?
    9mm.jpg
     
  6. SEM

    SEM Silver $$ Contributor

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    could be case length, a few that are longer than most receiving more crimping effort causing swelling of the case
     
  7. riflewoman

    riflewoman Gold $$ Contributor

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    Sized brass or fully loaded?
    Bullet bulge?
    Crimp?
    Base bulge?
     
  8. kelbro

    kelbro

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    Is there a carbon ring in your cylinder?

    That happens when shooting 38s in a 357 cylinder. Not sure what shorter cartridge you would be shooting in a 38 though unless previous brass was trimmed too short.
     
  9. fkimble@charter.net

    fkimble@charter.net

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    Try them in the cylinder after sizing and before any other operation. Also be sure the cylinder holes are clean. Oversized lead bullets can also cause this problem.

    Frank
     
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  10. ba_50

    ba_50

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    I don't crimp the cases. Will try resized cases only next time.

    The S&W 67 is a 38 (still tight) while the 19 is a 357.

    Very disappointed in 5 inch groups from benchrest at 25 yards. Tried 3 different bullets using 231.

    These guns haven't been used much either.

    Had a series 70 45 that would do 1-2 inches at 25.
    A dan Wesson 357 was amazing.
     
  11. Twicepop

    Twicepop Silver $$ Contributor

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    What bullets are you using, jacketed or cast, home cast or vendor made? For the jacketed bullets there isn't much you can do if you're getting poor accuracy from the gun(s) except try a different brand. For cast bullets, what diameter are they sized to? Smith's are usually very consistent at .357" for the cylinder throat and the bore. Try to push a cast bullet through the cylinder throat, if it falls through and is of a hard alloy, it's too small and won't obturate to bore diameter after going through the forcing cone, and will kinda' rattle down the barrel and will account for the poor accuracy noted in your post. Maybe give another powder a try, something a bit slower like Unique, Power Pistol, BE86, Longshot and others of a similar burn rate. Another thought is try a different brand of primer and apply a crimp. After I started "rollin' my own", I didn't apply a crimp, after I started roll crimping my revolver ammo the accuracy improved. Crimping the ammo makes the powder burn a little cleaner by putting it under increased pressure making it burn more efficiently. Just remember to crimp as a separate stage from bullet seating, and the cases need to be trimmed to a uniform length to get consistent ammo, I've found that about plus (+) or minus (-) .003" in either direction of your target case length with give consistent crimps.
     
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  12. Rsadams

    Rsadams

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    I use 231 in .38 for my wife simply because I use it in 9mm... It is not ideal for .38 and becomes very very position sensitive plus you must crimp.... A different powder that fills the case more would help...
     
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  13. LA50SHOOTER

    LA50SHOOTER Silver $$ Contributor

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    Why Not ? - You are shooting them in a revolver. - Depending on the bullet you should be using a roll crimp for a cast bullet or one with a crimping canalure or a taper crimp for a "smooth" sided bullet.
    - Have a look at & read a reloading manual for the correct way to load hand gun ammunition is my recommendation.

    - Ron -
     
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  14. rwj

    rwj Gold $$ Contributor

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    Some bullets have a chamfer or radius on the end the inserted into case. On ones I used to load, it was sufficient so as to not require forming a bell mouth on the case.
     
  15. LA50SHOOTER

    LA50SHOOTER Silver $$ Contributor

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    Understand - but the base of the bullet has nothing to do with whether to apply a Crimp after seating the bullet. - I realize that its 38 special which doesn't have a large amount of recoil, But there's a reason that bullets are crimped on hand gun ammunition. - I bet there isn't one reputable Mfgr. who doesn't crimp the bullets on hand gun ammunition. Again, - I revert - Read a reloading manual on How to reload rimmed hand gun ammunition.

    - Ron -
     
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  16. rwj

    rwj Gold $$ Contributor

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    If I can chamber then eject a round and it’s length doesn’t change, I see no value in crimping and don’t...
     
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  17. LA50SHOOTER

    LA50SHOOTER Silver $$ Contributor

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    Well I'm not here to "force" you to crimp it, that's your choice, I don't know what you shoot as far as caliber(s) or guns but to me it demonstrates you don't understand the processes in reloading or really care to understand the correct way to do things.

    Again, - I revert to the Need to Read a Reloading Manual on How to reload Hand Gun ammunition.
     
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  18. rwj

    rwj Gold $$ Contributor

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    Wo
    Wow...so based on performing a logical functional test, and not following conventional practices, you believe that I don’t what I’m doing!?
     
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  19. Rsadams

    Rsadams

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    The crimp in .38 helps with the burn more than you think especially using win 231.... As I stated before I also use it because it's on my bench , I have other powders but I have stuck with 231 and made it work... It is not a great choice though for the .38 spl... After trying a bunch of things a good roll crimp and primer seem to make it work....if useing S&B primers it won't light it off etc you will get a bunch of un burned powder...
     
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  20. Twicepop

    Twicepop Silver $$ Contributor

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    The crimp is there for two or more reasons. One it makes it harder for the bullet to be expelled from the case, upping the pressure and giving a cleaner burn to the powder. Another is it keeps the bullets from walking forward when it's companion cartridges are fired. A buddy of mine showed me this many years back, he took his Ruger Super Blackhawk put 6 rounds in the cylinder, and fired 5 of them. He then removed the 5 empty brass and replaced them with five more rounds, and fired those. He then removed all the empty brass and the one live round. The unfired round after having gone through 10 full house recoil cycles, the bullet had moved forward almost to the point of coming out of the case (these were all uncrimped).
    For semi-auto loading pistols a taper crimp is necessary for at least two or more reasons also. Like the revolver info, the crimps helps to achieve complete powder combustion for the same reasons as revolver ammo, It also holds the bullet in place to keep it from getting pushed back into the case when feeding/stripping from the magazine. In some cases this could dramatically raise pressures to a dangerous level or jam up the action.
     
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