22 Creedmoor Precision

[STS]

We know the definition of the term "precision" is to be able to shoot small groups and the term "accuracy" is to hit at the point of aim. I am always looking for a better mouse trap for my predator hunting addiction and have been a keen observer of any .22 Creedmoor I have come across. Here in Southwest Montana there seems to be a fairly large number of these rifles. My question is this. What is the precision capability of the fast twist barrels and the heavy .22 bullets? I question every shooter that has one about the bullets they have chosen to shoot and what level of precision they get from their combo. I hate to say it, but I have only seen 1 rifle that I thought was really shooting well, or to say it another way, something that would cause me to build one. I see the slow twist barrels shoot significantly smaller groups, even at longer distances, than the fast twist barrels. Maybe the rifles I've seen have not been tuned well or possibly there's another answer. Does anyone have any insight or examples of really good shooting rifles in this chambering?

 

[Shootin25]

Depends on your definition of “really good shooting”.

My current match rifle is a 22 Creed. It shoots 3/8”@ 100 consistently with the heavies and a 6.5 twist barrel. Struggled to find a working combo, but it finally settled in. It hammers beyond 1000 with ease.

So to me, it’s a really good shooting rifle.

 

[284winner]

We know the definition of the term "precision" is to be able to shoot small groups and the term "accuracy" is to hit at the point of aim. I am always looking for a better mouse trap for my predator hunting addiction and have been a keen observer of any .22 Creedmoor I have come across. Here in Southwest Montana there seems to be a fairly large number of these rifles. My question is this. What is the precision capability of the fast twist barrels and the heavy .22 bullets? I question every shooter that has one about the bullets they have chosen to shoot and what level of precision they get from their combo. I hate to say it, but I have only seen 1 rifle that I thought was really shooting well, or to say it another way, something that would cause me to build one. I see the slow twist barrels shoot significantly smaller groups, even at longer distances, than the fast twist barrels. Maybe the rifles I've seen have not been tuned well or possibly there's another answer. Does anyone have any insight or examples of really good shooting rifles in this chambering?

If that's the CASE...no pun intended, just build a 22-250 AI. Mine shoots around .2 with the 80 Amax bullets. At 800 yards its amazing. Been shooting 1/2 gallon milk jugs filled with water at 800. They resemble small ground hogs standing. That's my purpose for the build. If I miss a jug at 800, it's because I missed it, not the gun.

 

[Hal]

Sts
I sent you a pm.

Hal

 

[thatguyshm]

I think to better help you it would be best to know your personnel definition of accuracy and precision, or better yet, your requirement of it.

 

[STS]

I think to better help you it would be best to know your personnel definition of accuracy and precision, or better yet, your requirement of it.

Good point, I knew someone would want to refine what the level of precision we are talking about. I'm seeing most of the large case 22's (not just the Creedmoor) shoot .500 plus at 100 yards with a few that are capable of less. One rifle was a legit .250 gun. I had a barrel for one of my predator rifles that I chambered .22x47 Lapua. An absolutely top quality rifle. I got that barrel shooting .2xx but it was a struggle to get there. It was finicky, but once I figured out the powder and tuning nodes it worked quite well. I hunt with a matched pair of .22-250's, one suppressed and one not. Both of those rifles are slow twist barrels and were easy to tune with bullets made in my Rorschach bullet dies. I understand the whole ballistic advantage thing of the slow twist heavy bullet thing, but I'm trying to find out the range where it becomes an advantage and compare that to the distances I shoot coyotes. My two rifles are quite capable of doing the job out to 500 with the way they shoot. This is pretty big country around here and there will be some 500 yard shots. I don't see the practical need for a 700 or 800 yard cartridge when challenged with field shooting conditions. A 500 yard coyote is a damn small target when you're laying in a cow trail and the wind is blowing.

 

[thatguyshm]

So a rifle that will turn in 2-3 inch groups at 700-800 is what your looking for, correct?

I think as with any rifle, your build and components are going to make more of a difference than anything else.

I shoot the 22-250 AI with an 8 twist and couldn't be more happy with it. I'm not leaning on it and with 75 gr ELDs I'm getting 3370fps and SDs in the 6-8 range with RL23. I shoot less than an inch at 300, around 2 inches at 450, and hit easily at 780 yards on steel, the furthest I've taken it out to yet. I was getting about 5 inch groups out to distance with a 4-14 scope.

I will always have one to play with.

 

[STS]

I'm not looking for a 700 or 800 yard rifle at all, no matter what the precision level. As I said above, I don't see the need for a 700 or 800 yard rifle. I don't intend to shoot at coyotes at that distance. Your example of your AI is the kind of info that I'm looking for. First hand experience with specific precision numbers, twist rates, bullets and ballistic data. Looks like your rifle is capable of the same level of precision that I see with the slower twist barrels. What kind of trajectory numbers does it have at 200 to 500 yards?

 

[gman47564]

I shoot a fast twist 22 creedmoor..( 1and 7) i shoot 90 gr. Berger vlds out of it around 3300 fps.. its a savage model 10 varmint target action with a heavy varmint contour 26 inch criterion pipe. It shoots 1/4 moa pretty easy and better than that on a good day.. heres a 5 shot group at a 100. And 4 in a bottle cap at 250.. i think its accurate.. does great on out there as well..

 

[RGRobinett]

I'm not looking for a 700 or 800 yard rifle at all, no matter what the precision level. As I said above, I don't see the need for a 700 or 800 yard rifle. I don't intend to shoot at coyotes at that distance. Your example of your AI is the kind of info that I'm looking for. First hand experience with specific precision numbers, twist rates, bullets and ballistic data. Looks like your rifle is capable of the same level of precision that I see with the slower twist barrels. What kind of trajectory numbers does it have at 200 to 500 yards?

Run some comparisons on a good exterior ballistics calculator - there are many, but when home (desktop tube), I like JBM, as there are several choices, of varying degrees of hair-splitting - you'll likely observe that, 500 Yd. is about where the tortoise & hare converge.RG

 

[Shootin25]

As of 10 minutes ago.
Biggest change was going to BR4 primers. First 3 out of a barrel with 400 rounds and cleaned one time.

 

[STS]

I shoot a fast twist 22 creedmoor..( 1and 7) i shoot 90 gr. Berger vlds out of it around 3300 fps.. its a savage model 10 varmint target action with a heavy varmint contour 26 inch criterion pipe. It shoots 1/4 moa pretty easy and better than that on a good day.. heres a 5 shot group at a 100. And 4 in a bottle cap at 250.. i think its accurate.. does great on out there as well..

Thanks for that . That’s a quality setup.

 

[STS]

RG, i’ve looked at those ballistics tables and that’s what prompted my post. I agree with your 500 yard number. The larger slower bullets have a trajectory nearly identical to what I have now. There is a wind drift advantage to the high BC bullet though. I’m trying to sort out the possibility of something like a 60 grain boat tail at about 3750 being the best of both worlds out to 500 yards

 

[284winner]

RG, i’ve looked at those ballistics tables and that’s what prompted my post. I agree with your 500 yard number. The larger slower bullets have a trajectory nearly identical to what I have now. There is a wind drift advantage to the high BC bullet though. I’m trying to sort out the possibility of something like a 60 grain boat tail at about 3750 being the best of both worlds out to 500 yards

Give the 53 Vmax a shot. Good bc numbers and they shoot great in a 12 twist. Also very accurate bullets.

 

[B23]

For mid weight 22 cal bullets it's hard to beat the 53gr Vmax, you can shoot it faster as well as it has a higher BC than nearly all 22 cal bullets up to 60 grains. I shoot these in my 223AI and 22-250, they shoot extremely well in both.

 

[B23]

Give the 53 Vmax a shot. Good bc numbers and they shoot great in a 12 twist. Also very accurate bullets.

That's funny, we were thinking the same thing at the same time.

 

[284winner]

They literally scream in my 8 twist 22-250 Ackley. They shoot as well as the 80 Amax does. Just alot faster. Wouldn't use them at 800 but they are a legitimate 500 yard bullet

 

[thatguyshm]

It's pretty accurate, I've found my drops are right in line with the app. Mines a savage 12 with an X-Caliber 8" 3 groove barrel. When I was testing powder limits with RL23, I went up in half grain increments from 39 to 41.5. They all went into a one inch group at 100, simply wanted to look for pressure and check velocity. I was happy at 3370 and I haven't looked back.

My fire form load is a 68/69 gr Hornady or Sierra that shoot 2 inches at 300, about half an MOA lower than my 75gr ELD. I put my mother behind it at the 780, she's never shot over 100 yards. She center punched the steel and I made sure she kept the brass for a momento.

 

[Kenny2189]

I shoot a fast twist 22 creedmoor..( 1and 7) i shoot 90 gr. Berger vlds out of it around 3300 fps.. its a savage model 10 varmint target action with a heavy varmint contour 26 inch criterion pipe. It shoots 1/4 moa pretty easy and better than that on a good day.. heres a 5 shot group at a 100. And 4 in a bottle cap at 250.. i think its accurate.. does great on out there as well..

Mind sharing your load details?

 

[gman47564]

Hornady cases... 2.195 cbto 43.3 gr.of reloader 23... this load is safe in my stick... doesn't mean it is in anyone else's... as always work your way up looking for pressure....