Yet another 284 Win load question

[jawjaboy]

I'm working up loads for my new straight 284 Win F-Class rifle. Rem 700 Brux 4 groove 30" 1 in 8.5. Currently I'm getting .47" to .61" vertical at 200 yards. Norma brass, CCI 200, H4831 and 183 SMKs.

OAL is 2.500" measured at the ogive. .020" off the lands.

Range Temp 46° F

75 rounds down the tube when this test was run.

Charge avg fps (5 shot group) Vertical

54.0 2646. .61"
54.4. 2682. 1.16" (called flyer) .56" wo flyer
54.8. 2692. .55"
55.0. 2722. .47"


55.4 couple sticky case extractions. Primer looked good.

55 is probably too hot once the ambient temperature goes up to normal summer temps.

What's y'alls loads with the 183 SMK or 180 Bergers with H4831? What velocities should I expect from a 30" with H4831? What velocity increase is normally seen after barrel breakin?

Thanks

 

[geordiesniper]

My load for my 284 Win using Berger 180gr hybrids with H4831SC is 55.3grains at 10 thou jump which gives 2870fps in my Benchmark barrel. That is in my rifle and no pressure signs at 65f. Any higher temp and I will go down in load.

 

[kyreloader]

Those velocities seem low.

Most of my barrels seem to tune around the mid 55 grain range with my last tuning at 55.4g for a velocity of 2825 fps from my 30" Brux. The usual velocity window is around 2820-2850 fps where the vertical seems to improve.

First question would be how many rounds to you have down this barrel? Remembering the majority of my Brux barrels seem to speed up around the 100 round mark and I usually don't final tune until that number.

In discussion with the Canadian F-open members this past year at the Canadian National Championships, the consensus was that the 183s would not shoot as tight as the 180g Hybrids, but the windage improvement was enough to better their scores. So maybe, don't expect as tight a vertical with the 183s, but the BC improvement with aid your final scores at 1000?

 

[jawjaboy]

Those velocities were at 75 rounds down the barrel.

My last outting at the range the barrel had 120 rounds on it.

54.8 gr 2744 fps

55.0 gr 2761 fps

55.2 gr 2773 fps

I'm using an Oehler 35p chrono.

 

[RonAKA]

I would suggest doing a Ladder Test at 200 yards or better still 300 yards. Here is a description of the basic procedure:

Sierra Ladder Test

Use a wider load range and increment by 0.2 grains. It is OK to shoot more than one shot at the same load, but record the individual POI and associated velocity. I find you can make more sense out of a ladder test when you plot the vertical from a common datum point vs the velocity. Here is a plot taken from the POI and velocities recorded in that article. You are looking for a flat spot in the graph where velocity is increasing but POI vertical is not. From his data, I would pick 2800 fps as the sweet spot velocity. With that as your average target velocity, you have some tolerance for the standard deviation in velocity that you will get from load to load.

I also like to identify a sweet spot by velocity, not by charge weight. In my opinion that sweet spot velocity is transferable from one bullet to another or even one powder to another, and if you use a temperature sensitive powder, you have a fixed benchmark to target.

 

[jawjaboy]

Ladder at 300. Was testing from 54.9 gr upwards. Ran 2 ladder tests one with CCI 200 and one with Sellier & Bellot. Started getting some primer cratering with the S&B at 55.4 gr although no flattening.

This is the CCI 200. S&B was awful compared to this. 3x to 4x worse.

 

[RonAKA]

Ladder at 300. Was testing from 54.9 gr upwards. Ran 2 ladder tests one with CCI 200 and one with Sellier & Bellot. Started getting some primer cratering with the S&B at 55.4 gr although no flattening.

This is the CCI 200. S&B was awful compared to this. 3x to 4x worse.

You really can't learn anything from a ladder test, unless you can identify a repeatable flat spot.

 

[jawjaboy]

You really can't learn anything from a ladder test, unless you can identify a repeatable flat spot.

Copy. Ladder tests are new to me. OCW isn't. So this old dog has to learn a new trick.

 

[reubenski]

This is a bit off the mark as the discussion seems to center around using ladder and OCW tests to diagnose vertical at distance using a preferred and "known" .284W powder, BUT......I have had excellent results using RL17 and RL26 in .284W. H4831SC and H1000 have been very accurate but just didn't produce the velocity. Seem to top out at 2700fps. H4831SC also seems to be a higher-pressure powder, though that may be more attributed to people running it at higher pressure to achieve the desired velocity.

RL17 - 51.3grs with 180 SMK or Berger VLD gets me 2830fps and consistently .2's to .3's at 100

CCI LR, Surgeon 1086/ bartlein 26" 1:9" MTU, Lapua brass, neck-turned(unfortunately *sigh*), COAL something like 2.49 IIRC

 

[centerlineseal]

neck-turned(unfortunately *sigh*),

Could you elaborate on this comment. I'm waffling back and forth on neck turning 500 rds of 7mm08 Lapua brass. Don't really want to. I am interested in your experience.

 

[reubenski]

I find case prep to be tedious and try to identify as a shooter more than as a reloader. My strategy when starting to load for a new cartridge is to start out doing the least amount necessary. If I don't get good results then I will start to chip away at the case prep. Neck turning is one of the steps that is difficult to automate. Therefore I have to sit around and turn lots of 100 pieces of brass at a time. That takes a long time and it's hard on the hands. Fortunately you only have to do it once. But if I can get results without neck turning then I will absolutely not neck turn. When able I will always set up a gun with a no-turn neck. That being said I am also not a bench rest shooter so for my style of shooting .3 to .5moa is adequate and this is achievable with many cartridges without neck turning. The only two cartridges I load for that have forced me to NT are 7WSM (Win brass, go figure) and .284W.

 

[Sean Haggerty]

This is a bit off the mark as the discussion seems to center around using ladder and OCW tests to diagnose vertical at distance using a preferred and "known" .284W powder, BUT......I have had excellent results using RL17 and RL26 in .284W. H4831SC and H1000 have been very accurate but just didn't produce the velocity. Seem to top out at 2700fps. H4831SC also seems to be a higher-pressure powder, though that may be more attributed to people running it at higher pressure to achieve the desired velocity.

RL17 - 51.3grs with 180 SMK or Berger VLD gets me 2830fps and consistently .2's to .3's at 100

CCI LR, Surgeon 1086/ bartlein 26" 1:9" MTU, Lapua brass, neck-turned(unfortunately *sigh*), COAL something like 2.49 IIRC

Were you getting better velocities with RL26? I have 5lbs of 17 but wanted to try 26 as I have heard guys were having good luck with it.

 

[reubenski]

I have although I didn't follow through developing a load for it. Initial accuracy looks promising. I've done some reading on this powder and folks are seeing some decent temperature stability. Of course now it has become hard to find.

 

[Sean Haggerty]

I have although I didn't follow through developing a load for it. Initial accuracy looks promising. I've done some reading on this powder and folks are seeing some decent temperature stability. Of course now it has become hard to find.

Where would be a good starting charge to work with?

 

[reubenski]

I started at 56.3. send me a PM

 

[Sean Haggerty]

Thanks for the reply. PM was sent

 

[falconpilot]

Move those 183's in about .015...try them at .005 jam..

 

[brxbrad]

I'm shooting a straight .284 and have been for 3yrs now. I used Wolf then Tula LRM primers until I ran out and couldn't find them anymore thanks to Obama. I tried the CCI 200's and had the same problems with vertical. After some research and listening to others opinions, I purchased the CCI BR2's. I didn't have to change anything other than seating depth to achieve the same results that I was getting with the Russian primers. I do my load development at a distance of 335 yards and consistently achieve 1/3 or less MOA.
BASIC INFO:
32" 5R Bartlein Barrel 1/9"
54.5 gr 4831 SC
180gr Berger Hybrid
6.5 Lapua Brass necked up and turned
CCI BR2 primers

Hope this helps...