X barrels machine softer than y barrels both 416R

[Swampbuck]

I have read posts and heard gunsmiths say

X brand feels softer than y brand on the lathe and so shouldn't last as long.

Most of the custom barrel sites list 416R as their stainless.

Excluding cryo treatments and salt baths is all 416 R the same?

We will exclude Lothar Walther LW 50 from this discussion.

Which do you think lasts the longest? What are you experiences?

Thanks

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have found no correlation to anything on barrels machining to shooting quality. The ones you think are worst can be the best

 

[Swampbuck]

Yes I believe this to be true but what about longevity and the steel being equal?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I replace barrels about 6x faster than most do so who knows. My wore out barrels shoot real good for most. And since i chamber wooden crates worth at a time theres no telling which one is which

 

[savagedasher]

The gun barrels I have Bartlein, Krieger and Mc Gowen . Both of the cut barrels seamed softer .
Both of them polished easy. The Mc Gowen button barrel took 2 hours to polish and 6 sheet's of paper
But I think that was because of the heat treatment. One Mc Gowen lasted 3800 rounds. I had 20 10 rings hits 21 shot a 9 the last were a ugly 8. When I got home the bore scope told me I had no rifling left in the first. 7''. With that in mind that tells me no matter how bad a barrel looks if is shoots don't worry about looks.
Yes their can be a difference in hardness if a barrel is heat treated or normalized. Larry

 

[butchlambert]

Most barrel makers use the same vendors for their barrel steel. The do ask for a certain RC hardness. Most that I have and seen are very close to the same. Most are 26-29RC. I have found none that are all harder for a particular brand.
Yes, I have a Wilson hardness checker.

 

[butchlambert]

The gun barrels I have Bartlein, Krieger and Mc Gowen . Both of the cut barrels seamed softer .
Both of them polished easy. The Mc Gowen button barrel took 2 hours to polish and 6 sheet's of paper
But I think that was because of the heat treatment. One Mc Gowen lasted 3800 rounds. I had 20 10 rings hits 21 shot a 9 the last were a ugly 8. When I got home the bore scope told me I had no rifling left in the first. 7''. With that in mind that tells me no matter how bad a barrel looks if is shoots don't worry about looks.
Yes their can be a difference in hardness if a barrel is heat treated or normalized. Larry

Larry, I know of none that are not heat treated. Now some don't stress relieve though.

 

[savagedasher]

When buttoning a barrel strain induced martensite can happen. Heat treatment only makes the barrel softer. Mc gown mite not do that. Larry

 

[Swampbuck]

Thanks for the responses guys. It makes since that heat treatment might be the variable at work with all else being pretty equal.

Mr. Lambert I appreciate the response that no particular brand is harder but lots may very. Makes sense. Sounds like you have the equipment and knowledge to stand on.

 

[shortgrass]

When buttoning a barrel strain induced martensite can happen. Heat treatment only makes the barrel softer. Mc gown mite not do that. Larry

"Heat treatment only makes the barrel softer". ??? You'll have to explain that one to me.

 

[JRS]

www.lasc.us/RangingShotBarrelMakingFeature.htm

 

[flatlander]

I ordered a 14-twist 6mm bbl for a customer a few years ago, then waited, and waited, and waited - took so long that I finally called to see what the hold-up was. The bbl maker explained that he'd received a new lot of bbl blank steel, and that his button that'd been making 1-14tw bbls for years was now making 1-15tw with his new lot of steel blanks. He finally had to order a new button (probably a whole series of new buttons) to work with this softer lot of 416R. And when I did get the customer's bbl finished, he reported back to me that it shot out after only ~860rds, using his standard 6BR Imp load with 58gr VMax bullets (yep - a prairie dog shooter). Now this guy is very careful with his rifles - he's a former benchrest shooter, and takes pains not to overheat his PD bbls (he had two identical custom 6 BR Imp rifles, so alternated between the two of them & a 223), and is very careful when cleaning.

That's the only experience I've had to date on a "softer" bbl, but thought it was worth sharing.

 

[butchlambert]

Larry, I don't know where you got that info. To make metal softer requires annealing, not heat treat.

 

[savagedasher]

Larry, I don't know where you got that info. To make metal softer requires annealing, not heat treat.

How do you anneal with out heat? Temp& duration and how it is cooled is still heat treatment. Normalization, Annealing or Harding is all done with heat. Larry

 

[Rustystud]

The barrel maker I use makes both cut rifled barrels and button rifled barrels. His barrels machine very nicely. I know for a fact he stress relieves his barrels multiple times during his manufacture of barrels. 416 stainless work hardens just the same as other stainless steels. I feel stress relieving and proper lapping are what makes the difference between an average barrel and a great barrel. I pay for the extra steps because I want to provide the best quality barrels available to my customers.
Nat Lambeth

 

[JRS]

Larry, I don't know where you got that info. To make metal softer requires annealing, not heat treat.

How do you anneal with out heat? Temp& duration and how it is cooled is still heat treatment. Normalization, Annealing or Harding is all done with heat. Larry

I don't want to be accused of not knowing what I am talking about, and have provided something that explains the difference:

www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/74097-heat-treatment-annealing-and-tempering

 

[savagedasher]

Larry, I don't know where you got that info. To make metal softer requires annealing, not heat treat.

How do you anneal with out heat? Temp& duration and how it is cooled is still heat treatment. Normalization, Annealing or Harding is all done with heat. Larry

I don't want to be accused of not knowing what I am talking about, and have provided something that explains the difference:

www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/74097-heat-treatment-annealing-and-tempering

Try Stainless Steel-Heat Treatment It explains the process and the reason for doing. Larry

 

[JRS]

Larry, I don't know where you got that info. To make metal softer requires annealing, not heat treat.

How do you anneal with out heat? Temp& duration and how it is cooled is still heat treatment. Normalization, Annealing or Harding is all done with heat. Larry

I don't want to be accused of not knowing what I am talking about, and have provided something that explains the difference:

www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/74097-heat-treatment-annealing-and-tempering

Try Stainless Steel-Heat Treatment It explains the process and the reason for doing. Larry

Click on reply #11. It's primary function is to harden and strengthen the barrel steel, which happens to be what this thread is about.

 

[savagedasher]

Larry, I don't know where you got that info. To make metal softer requires annealing, not heat treat.

How do you anneal with out heat? Temp& duration and how it is cooled is still heat treatment. Normalization, Annealing or Harding is all done with heat. Larry

I don't want to be accused of not knowing what I am talking about, and have provided something that explains the difference:

www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/74097-heat-treatment-annealing-and-tempering

Try Stainless Steel-Heat Treatment It explains the process and the reason for doing. Larry

Click on reply #11. It's primary function is to harden the barrel steel, which happens to be what this thread is about.

Stainless and chrome moly like apples and oranges Both are different and so is the process of heat treatment. Larry

 

[JRS]

True Larry. And the reasons for heat treating produce the same results. Hardening and strengthening. Not softening.