WSSM - Wassup ???

[JC_40x]

First of all, let me say, this is the best shooter's forum on the net. Many knowledgeable gunsmiths,shooters and reloaders with a wealth of info ! Now....
Seems like much of the initial excitement and hooplah of the introduction of the WSSM cartridges has turned into total disdain for this particular series of cartridges. I see many instances of shooters claiming short barrel life and less than spectacular accuracy with the WSSM rounds. What happened? Are the cartridges to blame or was it Winchester's lack of long term testing to blame?
I always thought this particular case configuration would have made a dynamite varmint or target cartridge. I had planned on re-chambering my XR-100 for a variant of this cartridge. Perhaps I should reconsider that project and go some other route.
I would really like to see if anybody has been having much success with this cartridge, mainly the .243 and .25 calibers). What do you think ??
... J

 

[billmo]

Man I got one of the Coyote 70 s 243 WSSM and I am happy with it's performance so far. I don't know what the barrel life is going to be like because I have not shot it very much at all. I also have the 25 WSSM in the SS A-bolt and I only hunt with it.,No Bench Shooting) It performs really well as far as hunting goes. I don't really know how accurate it is because I have not spent any time on the bench with it. Hope this helps. Bill

 

[Rustystud]

You can blame it all on Rick Jamison the father of the Winchester short mags. If he is going to get the wealth from royalties then ought get the real credit for what it is worth.

In my humble opinion all the short mags with a bore diameter below 30 caliber are overbore disasters.

Rustystud

 

[JC_40x]

Thanks everyone, for the info. I knew there had to be someone out there with some useful input.
I have always been a proponent of the short fat powder column
school of thought ever since I built my first 6BR rifle back in
the early eighties. Since then, I have built, or have had built, a dozen or so different rifles in BR and PPC chamberings. All were built on Remington actions,XP, 40x and 700)and Shilen SM barrels, except, two that were built on Hart actions. All have shot amazingly well and have been relatively easy to dial in.
With that in mind, I took a look at the short,fat WSSM case and saw what I'm thinking is some potential for an accurate varmint cartridge that could possibly have some target shooting appeal and not burn out barrels quite so quickly. My project to that end is to take the WSSM case and push the shoulder back about .200 of an inch or so to decrease the case capacity and to enable me to lengthen the neck slightly. The prototype in the picture has a neck diameter of .268 with the bullet seated. I figure I'll have the chamber cut to .270 and make adjustments to the neck diameter from there. All other dimensions are pretty much the same as a standard .243 WSSM case other than the case length,neck diameter and neck length. I'm also toying with the idea of turning the rim down to .470,3rd case from right)to facilitate using a standard .308 boltface.
Well, there it is . What do you guys think, wasting my time ???

... J

 

[BillK]

Jc- If you are willing to shoot a wildcat like a 6.5-25wssm or 6.5-243wssm with a neck thickness of around .014to .015 you can't go wrong!!! 6.5wssm has a much better case capacity than the 6.5-284.

 

[65fan]

JC go for it!!!! I have a 6.5/25wssm and love it.I have alot of wood on my wall accumulated with this cal at 1k.Dmoran your theary on the 243wssm is hogwash.the 243wssm and the 243win have almost Identical powder capacitys.243win holds more and will burn a barrel quicker than a wssm .the wssm has a 28 degree shoulder the win has a 20.the 28 is more efficent and burns more powder in the case and less going over the throat.I have a 243wssm also,I don't have all the bugs worked out at 1k with this gun but it shoots in the .1s at 100.My guns are custom guns with good barrels.I beleive win guns were junk,the calibers were not.good luck JC let us know how it goes.

 

[mikecr]

y'all might have missed the fact that the WSSM case has the SAME capacity as the 243Win/308Win/260Rem. Much less than popular cartridges such as the 25-06/270/etc..

Perhaps you haven't recognized the LOADS winchestor has merchandised in 243wssm. The 243Win would do no better in such loads. Honestly, you can't base any cartridge's merit on it's factory offerings.

For sure, the 223wssm should never have been offered by Winchestor. And truly, they should have started at 25cal and moved up to 28cal. There is already a 260 and 308 with same capacity.
The 223wssm should have been left to wildcatters, just as the 22-250 should have been, and as the 6.5-284 has been.

I'll tell you the real WSSM achilles heel: Brass thickness..
You couldn't get a 6ppc to shoot with 20thou+ thick brass in the necks either.
And yet my favorite thing about the WSSM: Brass quality!
Better than Lapua or Norma, in every respect.
,Not talkin the factory loaded brass, but the stuff you order)

I shoot a 6.5wssm, and couldn't be happier. It's improved only for a 35deg shoulder, and I set the chamber neck at .291,tight). Using IMR4350, my leade has moved .006" after 620 rounds in a Border 5R barrel.

I find that it performs no better or worse than the 260.

 

[65fan]

6.5/25wssm barrel life.my last 6.5wssm barrel I took off at at 1500 rounds.last group it fired was 6.8 inchs in the shoot off.

 

[Nucum]

I Was considering a similar project. Does anyone have a feel for how far that you can neck turn this brass. Is .012 to far or is .015 thin enough.

 

[mikecr]

My brass is turned to .013" thick giving me a .290 loaded neck diameter into a .291 chamber.

I'll tell you this, It's alot of work getting there.
Don't make this the first cartridge you turn.

 

[Nucum]

I've already tried turning a few pieces down to .014 it seemed to work fairly well if I took them down in 2 stages, with 2 different neck turners.

 

[JC_40x]

Does anyone remember or know why Winchester thought it necessary to use .022 thousandths neck wall thickness on the WSSM cases ? It's almost as if they were trying to raise case pressures by gripping the bullets extra tight. I measured some new,unturned RP WIN 243 cases and and they are only .013-.014 thousandths thick. What's the advantage to almost doubling the neck wall thickness on the WSSM ? I shoot a lot of different 6mm cartridges and I turn the necks to .011 or .012 thousandths on most of them,with chambers to match, of course),and have not had many case failures or split necks, even with some pretty hot loads. Somebody enlighten me, please! BTW, stick with the Winchester component brass, I just received a shipment of FC 243 WSSM brass and they are terrible. Lots of runout on the case body when I checked them on my lathe and some off center primer pockets, maybe that's why they are half the price of the Wins.
... J

 

[RIFLE1]

The issue of the thick neck is practically unavoidable due to the required diameter/thickness of the cup used to form the case. It could have been made thinner, but it would have certainly pushed up production costs and possibly increased manufacturing losses., again, higher production costs)

As for the Federal brass being crap, it was produced by Winchester on the same line they produced their brass, and from the timing, I'd say concurrently.

Chris

 

[mikecr]

I think they formed WSSM from WSM cases. That would explain why there is WSM body thickness in a WSSM neck.

Just buy Winchestor brass and be done with folks. It's not like it'll ever wear out.

 

[Rtheurer]

Lets talk a little about Performance?

Last Spring I took two freinds of mine, both Gunsmiths) to the farm to attemp a 1 mile shot on a 2 foot wide by 3 foot high steel plate. I had done it with my 7mm Rem Mag during the winter & one was going to try it with his 300 WM using 190 Bergers. Nathan of Straightshot gunsmithing brought his 243 WSSM Improved!!!!!! I thought holey cow is that thing going to make it?? He assured me that he ran the ballistics on it & that he was going to be super sonic at that distance.

He was shooting a 115DTAC & once we got him on the plate made several hits in a row on it. MOA at 1 Mile plus from the ground witha bypod with a 6mm!!! I would have not believed it if I did not see it with my own two eyes.

Maybee I can get him to chime in & tell of his cartridge he called the 243 ROUGE. What an intresting case and story for all you tinkerers out there.

RussT

 

[harrys]

I have a 25wssm in win mod 70 coyote love it so far, just be sure u resize wssm's all the way as they seem to be finicky about that,best shot so far is 417 yds on a whitetail which isn't that far really.It's shoots 75 gr v max's incredibly accurate as well as 100 and 110 accubonds the heavier bullets don't impress me i think they are to far into the case bein so long.

 

[fdshuster]

Norm Johnson has an extensive article on the 223, 243 & 25 WSSM ctgs. in the newest "Varmint Hunter", Jan- Mar 2009, issue 69, page 65. Nothing but praise for all three.