WS2 Danzak...

[20PPC]

I'm looking to purchase some WS2 Danzak where is the best resource to find some.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm looking to purchase some WS2 Danzak where is the best resource to find some.

Give me a call later

 

[mikecr]

Should stop using the 'Danzak'/'DanZac' misnomer..
WS2 is tungsten disulfide

I purchased mine ~30yrs ago+ from RoseMill.
You can also get it from BulletCoatings.com

Reloading Tungsten Disulfide WS2 Powder - Bullet Coating Reloading Moly Hex Boron Tungsten Powder

Here is enough to keep you busy. Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) is dry/solid lubricant powder and is one of the most lubricious substance in world. WS2 offers excellent dry lubricity (COF: 0.03) unmatched to any other substance, including Graphite or Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2). Can be applied to...

www.bulletcoatings.com

 

[RegionRat]

In addition to @mikecr comments above, dicronite and some of the other commercial names for WS2 powder lubrication were controversial in the mechanisms forums dealing with space or vacuum during the 70s and when I arrived on that scene in the 80s, I was cautioned that many of the claims were false. The people I was listening to were the ones who sent it into orbit and the moon, and were the best tribology experts in the field before they retired.
It definitely has use and in the right context is a good tool, but it was also true that it was over hyped. So, do your testing and you will determine if it works for your application. It is in the same vein as graphite and MoS2, which each have their own pros and cons. It will work in the right context. YMMV

https://www.nanoslicklubricants.com/product/tungstenlube-ws2-dry-lubricant/

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

In addition to @mikecr comments above, dicronite and some of the other commercial names for WS2 powder lubrication were controversial in the mechanisms forums dealing with space or vacuum during the 70s and when I arrived on that scene in the 80s, I was cautioned that many of the claims were false. The people I was listening to were the ones who sent it into orbit and the moon, and were the best tribology experts in the field before they retired.
It definitely has use and in the right context is a good tool, but it was also true that it was over hyped. So, do your testing and you will determine if it works for your application. It is in the same vein as graphite and MoS2, which each have their own pros and cons. It will work in the right context. YMMV

https://www.nanoslicklubricants.com/product/tungstenlube-ws2-dry-lubricant/

I agree with this. So, I only use my results as the reason I use it and I make no other claims to it's benefits, or lack thereof.

My experience with it is copper fouling reduced to or nearly nil and winning multiple matches with approximately 400 rounds on the barrel since cleaning.

I guess I'm lazy but this allows me to focus on shooting, rather than cleaning

Same goes for tuners.. They allow me to preload rather than loading at the match to maintain tune.

This game and the people in it are too fun to spend the day loading and cleaning all day long. So, I don't clean the gun at a match(or seldom) and I load at home, using a tuner and coated bullets to keep it shooting all day.. and I win my share of matches doing it this way. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[RegionRat]

“I like shooting more than cleaning”... Amen to that!

@gunsandgunsmithing , did you also combine wax into your process or just the WS2?
Also, if you did clean, did it take extraordinary cleaning or very long to “reset” or foul the bbl?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

“I like shooting more than cleaning”... Amen to that!

@gunsandgunsmithing , did you also combine wax into your process or just the WS2?
Also, if you did clean, did it take extraordinary cleaning or very long to “reset” or foul the bbl?

No and no. I simply dump the coated bullets from the tumbler onto an old towel, swish them back and forth for about 5 seconds and their polished, ready to load. I typically coat about 1000 at a time in a vibratory tumbler with nothing but bullets and about a thimble full of ws2 added. It'll take a little more if starting new, to get the bowl coated.

I wash the bullets in acetone and dump them onto a towel to dry. Super easy in warm weather because I leave them in the sun to both dry a warm. Warming helps the coating process but can be done in an oven or with a heat lamp.

Just let em run for a few hours, buff off the excess and done. I don't use pins or bb's with my method but that works too. The key to coating without pins or bb's seems to be having roughly the right load in the tumbler at a time but it's not a precise process, in that regard and it somewhat depends on the size of the bowl. I look for good movement/circulation of the bullets in the tumbler, as a rule. They need to move freely. If they don't, the tumbler is probably too full.

Hope this helps

 

[SmokinJoe]

I also have used Danzac for many years, liked it better than moly, and still use it because I have a good bit of it and get along with it pretty well. Will caution that when coating bullets with it you need to wear a respirator and goggles, or maybe I'm just sensitive to it. I used, and still use, the Berger Bullets cleaning regimen and it has always served me well. Like Mike, I only cleaned at the end of the day/weekend and won a lot of matches, also came preloaded.
All that said, if I was considering getting into coated bullets today, I would look really hard at the hexagonal boron nitride process. I have talked to several other shooters over the past few years who use it and their stories are very convincing. Good luck with whatever you choose to do, be careful with it, and be consistent with your processes.

 

[RegionRat]

Thanks for the comments @SmokinJoe and @gunsandgunsmithing

Finding and buying the materials, are what the OP was after, but I think the processing and running with coated bullets are just as murky.

The dry lubes have always been controversial within the industrial community. Standardized performance testing created almost as much controversy as the processing and the test results. My opinion is that this is caused by folks who swallow the hype but then don't have the discipline to do their homework or follow through with the whole story. Often, they would have learned that they exceeded the capabilities or put the materials into a context where they didn't belong.

I was "on duty" when the GOV wanted to look into MoS2 for weapons systems and I evaluated materials, processing, testing and results for many years. Hate to say it but as a result I don't attempt to use it for my own purposes at home. MoS2 is complex in terms of how and why it works and what it is actually doing. If you don't adopt the whole system, you don't get any benefit.

For that matter, do any of these things right, and they can make a difference, do them half assed and you get nothing or even worse.

WS2 was a hot button topic for my bosses at the start of my career, but they were so wise they knew I would have to test it myself rather than just swallow that attitude as dogma. They were brilliant people in general.

The space/vacuum/cryo forums spent (a lot of) money on these topics out of necessity and I was part of the bridge to the weapons systems and industrial communities. All of these dry lubes have proven to be of some benefit within limited contexts, but they also require the adoption of the whole regimen not just the easy parts. They are not a penicillin for shooting, but can be worth the trouble when the whole system is balanced.

Again, thanks for sharing your work and comments.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Thanks for the comments @SmokinJoe and @gunsandgunsmithing

Finding and buying the materials, are what the OP was after, but I think the processing and running with coated bullets are just as murky.

The dry lubes have always been controversial within the industrial community. Standardized performance testing created almost as much controversy as the processing and the test results. My opinion is that this is caused by folks who swallow the hype but then don't have the discipline to do their homework or follow through with the whole story. Often, they would have learned that they exceeded the capabilities or put the materials into a context where they didn't belong.

I was "on duty" when the GOV wanted to look into MoS2 for weapons systems and I evaluated materials, processing, testing and results for many years. Hate to say it but as a result I don't attempt to use it for my own purposes at home. MoS2 is complex in terms of how and why it works and what it is actually doing. If you don't adopt the whole system, you don't get any benefit.

For that matter, do any of these things right, and they can make a difference, do them half assed and you get nothing or even worse.

WS2 was a hot button topic for my bosses at the start of my career, but they were so wise they knew I would have to test it myself rather than just swallow that attitude as dogma. They were brilliant people in general.

The space/vacuum/cryo forums spent (a lot of) money on these topics out of necessity and I was part of the bridge to the weapons systems and industrial communities. All of these dry lubes have proven to be of some benefit within limited contexts, but they also require the adoption of the whole regimen not just the easy parts. They are not a penicillin for shooting, but can be worth the trouble when the whole system is balanced.

Again, thanks for sharing your work and comments.

I'm not sure if we agree or not but I stated my reasons for using it and that I've done ok with it. I've used it to over more barrels than I can remember with no downsides that I can recall...that matter. I will say that you'll have to be aggressive to clean it all from a barrel...but I've seen no down side to it with my normal cleaning regimen.

I meant to reply in that regard to another poster. I feel pretty safe in saying that maybe every barrel I've had settled down in only a shot or two, from clean. First shot isn't group wrecking bad but is almost always out from a half to whole bullet. From there, I usually go to the sighter to verify, but I feel pretty confident from there on. IMO, that's very good, though. I'm not sure if I've had many barrels that I'd feel as safe with, shooting naked. It actually seems to settle down faster, if anything.

As for its lubricity, I find little to no change in velocities, coated vs naked and I've shot them round robin into a hole, but I've never tested for when/if velocities change with several rounds down a coated and uncleaned barrel.

I've read studies on it's values, by the military. Frankly, their results and mine are very similar...no substantial lubricity value in terms of speed and pressures, but with less fouling.

Coating and how often we clean is a personal choice to moist people and what gives us confidence. I felt the same about these subjects for a long time...and I'm not advocating for neglecting your gun..

My experience was biased toward cleaning but I was leaning more and more toward ws2 and cleaning less, as time and experience both ways added up.

Until the first time I won with 400 rounds since cleaning, the first time. A couple of months or so later...I was able to do it again!

Then later, again(or so) with a different barrel!

I'm confident enough in the process I use but I'm not twisting anyone's arm to do it like I do. It's a personal choice. I'm just telling anyone interested, what I choose to do and why. Some may say it's just a perception on my behalf but I've been coating bullets with ws2 since about 2008 and I can't remember all the barrels.

 

[RegionRat]

Mike, I agree with what you are saying. You have shared a good example of following through with the whole system and doing it right.

Often, WS2 and HBN get muddled when folks don't follow through with the work to get it right. I like these two methods over MoS2, but admit many folks have made MoS2 work for their purposes as well. MoS2 just isn't my favorite when it comes to getting back to a seasoned state after cleaning.

 

[20PPC]

Thanks for everyone's input.
I've actually been using HBN for the past 7-8 years and have been very happy with it.
I am getting ready to start making my own bullets after recommendation of several fellow shooters a couple of whom also make their own bullets I thought I would give it a try.
Whether it's better or worse than HBN ill soon find out, if not I can always go back.

 

[mikecr]

What I like about tungsten:
It doesn't change MV over naked bullets in normally fouled bore
It acts as a universal fouling, so it makes a perfect pre-fouling.
It reduces copper fouling
It cleans out of the bore easily
A small bit lasts forever

I began using around ~1979-80, and have never had an issue nor seen a down side to it.

 

[Rustytigwire]

I got HBN and WS2 from Lower Friction.
After much experimentation i mix the 2 and wet coat in plastic bottles in my Hornady vibrator. Noisy. Rinse thru a strainer, re use the slurry next time.
I see others purty shiny bullet results with great envy just cant seem to duplicate. Acetone dawn dish soap hot cold bb's and not bbs. Good luck.
My method sticks to Sierras different than Hornady different than Nosler. Different jacket copper???
Minimum copper fouling, minimum cleaning.
I do not shoot competitive and not very methodical.
Hope you have best results in your effort.
Tom