Window of tune - 6BRA vs the others?

[Curious]

I alluded to this on a different thread bit think its probably best discussed separately.

Have any of you guys felt the 6BRA took more tuning or was harder to find the very best tune than your other 6BR derivatives?

Could the 6BRA tune window be smaller than the others for some reason?

 

[mikeeg02]

I've shot my three barrels a lot since I got my first one done in March I think it was. I've worked with three powders, three bullet manufacturers, and two primers. I don't ladder test. I've found it's hard to make them shoot bad, and also hard to make them shoot superb. You can put just about anything in it and shoot 1"at 300. But it took me a lot of tuning and trials to get to under 1/2" at 300. I tried a lot of things being a new to me case, but ended up finding my exact load, minus a little powder from my dasher last year was on the money. Same bullets, powder, primers, seating depth.

I also have since tuned in two other powder and bullet combinations. In my opinion, the nodes seem really sharp. I've talked with a few others who started using them and they felt the same.

My 6br tuning experience was on a factory gun, it took a lot for me to tune, but I was often chasing what I consider factory gun fliers. I also ended up only finding it to be consistent at dasher speeds. Which is hard on cases for a 6br. (~2940)

My dasher last year I already had a known good powder charge based on my reamer. So it only took a seating depth find. Which ended up being the same as what I found in my 6br, which is also the same in my br-a. (With the same bullet/powder/primer combination) I didn't change a thing in it last year, and it consistently shot 6", which I fear was inherent to my limited condition reading capabilities. It also shot at ~2940

I've only chronographed once on the br-a, and it seemed to want to shoot at 2980. All three loads are probably within a half minute of come up at 1k, so they are all close.

 

[Curious]

I alluded to this on a different thread bit think its probably best discussed separately.

Have any of you guys felt the 6BRA took more tuning or was harder to find the very best tune than your other 6BR derivatives?

Could the 6BRA tune window be smaller than the others for some reason?

24hrs and very little activity on this thread, usually a 6BRA thread stimulates a whole load of discussion - why not this one I wonder?

 

[newbieshooter]

Have any of you guys felt the 6BRA took more tuning or was harder to find the very best tune than your other 6BR derivatives?

I use the same load development process for the 6BR, 6Dasher and 6BRAI. So I can't say it took more tuning or was harder to find the very best tune for the 6BRAI over the 6BR or 6Dasher.

 

[Curious]

I use the same load development process for the 6BR, 6Dasher and 6BRAI. So I can't say it took more tuning or was harder to find the very best tune for the 6BRAI over the 6BR or 6Dasher.

Can I ask what method did you use and what were the repeatable results and how did they compare?

 

[mikeeg02]

Because it's been discussed ad nauseum.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but given the overall tone of the discussion from Area51's thread, this new thread struck me as trolling. Perhaps I'm wrong and, if so, I apologize. But I'm just telling you how I feel.

The Search function will bring up a multitude of information.

I think the point of this, is when the BR-A became the talk of the town, it was pushed as an easy to tune cartridge, the dasher ender, etc. Everyone I talk with at the matches says the same thing, they are having trouble getting it tuned in, cant keep it in tune, one relay shoots this, next relay is different. And many people jumped on this cartridge because it was promoted as such an easy to use cartridge.

The shooters Ive talked with at matches are and have tried different powders, primers, etc and still having trouble. Most of them shot dashers last year.

I would say from the tone of Curious' post, he hasnt had as much interaction with others in person at the range trying this cartridge, and was looking to see if others are struggling like he may be, or may have been. At least thats how I read it.

Just my .02

 

[Curious]

I would say from the tone of Curious' post, he hasnt had as much interaction with others in person at the range trying this cartridge, and was looking to see if others are struggling like he may be, or may have been. At least thats how I read it.

Just my .02

Thats right Mike, my request for others experiences is far from trolling.

My BRA shoots really well but the nodes are very small, its either in good tune or its out, Im running H4895 and apparently it will handle the temperature swings Im likely to see but I dont like these small nodes. I feel like other calibers like 6BR and Dasher were more forgiving and so would be interested in other peoples experiences.

If going back to a Dasher gives me wider nodes then thats what I will do but at this point I can't decide if its the case or the barrel/build.

 

[newbieshooter]

Can I ask what method did you use and what were the repeatable results and how did they compare?

• I run a ladder at the distance I'm shooting - pick a powder load from this.
• Then run a seating depth test with the given powder load to find the tightest group(s).
• Then I retest the powder/seating depth combination(s) to see if it's repeatable. If so, that's my load for that rifle/barrel combination. I will test around it to see if groups gets smaller or try other things like neck tension/primers...etc.

I'm still relatively new to LR shooting. When I started 2 years ago, I started with a Dasher. It could be (back then), I wasn't as proficient with my reloading, i was still learning proper bench manners, slow to get off shots....etc. ?? By the time I got the BRAI, I had more experience? Is it the chambering or that the BRAI barrel sat on a different rifle/stock/action? Or maybe it's the barrel on my Dasher? Those aspects of shooting are beyond my comprehension. Anyways, I found that the BRAI, over a given time period, shot consistently smaller (@600 yards) than my Dasher. My limited 600 yard Dasher/BRAI experience mimics what @Tom has experienced at 1000 yards which Tom posted here.

At the few registered matches I've attended, shooters are still winning and setting records with Dashers (and BRAIs).

YMWV.

 

[johara1]

I have found the BR IMP. to very easy to load for. seating depth is very soft in or out a .001 from what you find is best, it still will shoot in a .1 and up or down on the powder a .1 it still shoots good. Good bullets make it shoot better, sorted good bullet shoot even better. Uniform neck tension is a big help, all of this will yield very uniform velocity and es. and vertical will be about an inch at 1000. Easy to make good cases and easy to load for and if you have problems, it is you or something wrong with you scope or equipment..... jim

 

[Stan Taylor]

• I run a ladder at the distance I'm shooting - pick a powder load from this.
• Then run a seating depth test with the given powder load to find the tightest group(s).
• Then I retest the powder/seating depth combination(s) to see if it's repeatable. If so, that's my load for that rifle/barrel combination. I will test around it to see if groups gets smaller or try other things like neck tension/primers...etc.

I'm still relatively new to LR shooting. When I started 2 years ago, I started with a Dasher. It could be (back then), I wasn't as proficient with my reloading, i was still learning proper bench manners, slow to get off shots....etc. ?? By the time I got the BRAI, I had more experience? Is it the chambering or that the BRAI barrel sat on a different rifle/stock/action? Or maybe it's the barrel on my Dasher? Those aspects of shooting are beyond my comprehension. Anyways, I found that the BRAI, over a given time period, shot consistently smaller (@600 yards) than my Dasher. My limited 600 yard Dasher/BRAI experience mimics what @Tom has experienced at 1000 yards which Tom posted here.

At the few registered matches I've attended, shooters are still winning and setting records with Dashers (and BRAIs).

YMWV.

I read a lot of posts about ladder test the only ladder test I have ever done is to make sure it's steady when I climbed up an down it shows how dumb I am.LOL

 

[Northridge]

I alluded to this on a different thread bit think its probably best discussed separately.

Have any of you guys felt the 6BRA took more tuning or was harder to find the very best tune than your other 6BR derivatives?

Could the 6BRA tune window be smaller than the others for some reason?

Curious, I do not feel my 6BRA has a broader tune window "unless you dig deep" but it has a tune window very similar to a 6-dasher but when your in the middle of that window or just getting ready to blow up it simply shoots smaller ladders than any of my dashers from the past hands down, not even the same planet to be quite frank for me at least. deep creek Missoula is my home range and club for shooting at 1000 yard. Last season I had my best 10 Match agg season for heavy ever shooting a 6- dasher and that agg is in about top 6 aggs ever shot at deep creek that's saying something and I was pleased with my efforts. finally by August of last season I had my first 6BRA ready for our championship match, last minute but ready. right out of the gate it was shooting smaller ladders than any of my dashers ever gave me and it helped me secure 3rd place for 2 gun and 4th for heavy class bingo.. so over the cold winter I had a second gun a dasher shooting ok but after my first time at bat I thought I'm going to set this barrel back to a 6BRA and see what I learn so I did and guess what my ladders shot smaller bingo! so fast forward to this 2018 agg season at Deep Creek Missoula shooting both those guns as 6BRA I am 6 targets in so far for heavy class agg season and my personal agg from last years is sizably smaller and is only .200ths off Tom Mousels IBS ten match agg world Record from last season I shit you not, now I have four targets to go and a lot can happen I likely will shit down my leg but this little 6BRA has made me a better shooter in all respects not counting the success from others I have talked into trying it. ooh and by the way that same ten match Agg world record held by Tom Mousel set last year 2017 season he broke with a 6BRA, this season tom is 6 targets in and only .256ths off that record and still in the hunt I'm cheering him on. there are many ways to find success and failure but if this 6BRA is giving you fits something is very likely being missed. So back to your intended question are the windows smaller? no not for me but within the window my guns shoot a lot smaller targets on average. simply handle the 6BRA as a 6BRA let it tell you what it needs on paper its not a dasher or any other improved option and will handle tuning different, different but good.

Shawn Williams

 

[BartsBullets]

I have found the BR IMP. to very easy to load for. seating depth is very soft in or out a .001 from what you find is best, it still will shoot in a .1 and up or down on the powder a .1 it still shoots good. Good bullets make it shoot better, sorted good bullet shoot even better. Uniform neck tension is a big help, all of this will yield very uniform velocity and es. and vertical will be about an inch at 1000. Easy to make good cases and easy to load for and if you have problems, it is you or something wrong with you scope or equipment..... jim

I agree 100 percent with what Jim said.

A big part of getting the most out of a cartridge is learning what it likes and doesn’t like. I personally despise a dasher. I found it to be finicky, difficult to tune and a shot flipper! That’s my personal opinion and I haven’t been shy about stating so. However there are plenty of top guys that can make a dasher shoot like a laser. As far as the 6br goes I never got one to shoot to my liking. Once again there are shooters that will stomp the crap out of you with one. The theme here is the shooter learning how to make their caliber of choice shoot. If you change calibers expect a learning curve. There is no easy button! It’s doesnt matter if it’s 6BR, Dasher, Grinch, or BR Improved.

As far as the tune being “Sharp” that’s not my experience. I’ve found the 6BRI to be easy to get in tune and keep it there. If your experiencing a narrow load window it has more to do with your barrel then the caliber. The other possibility is you’re running your loads to close to the edge as far as velocity.

Bart

 

[comagutsa]

i cant really comment on this as i think i got a bad barrel for my 6BRA.. 900 rounds and still cant get a load on it and gave up, waiting for new barrel
but my 6BRX was easiest ones i ever had to load test for, 6BR was easy to and both had a few 0.2-3 gr powder windows nodes
from what i have seen and been told the 6BRA is tiny only a 0.1gr window but i have to wait and see

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Heres a 1k ladder. Each group is .1 gn. apart. Thats the widest node I have ever seen at 1k. It is NOT normal. This ones a solid +/- .1gn. They normally are not that wide. Thats for anything at 1k I have seen. Even my magnum hunting rifles get down to +/- .2 and they are burning over 80 grains of powder.
I shot 2 agg records in 2014 (Willamsport 1k) with my dasher. That barrel had a node +/- .05gn.

 

[Curious]

Heres a 1k ladder. Each group is .1 gn. apart. Thats the widest node I have ever seen at 1k. It is NOT normal. This ones a solid +/- .1gn. They normally are not that wide. Thats for anything at 1k I have seen. Even my magnum hunting rifles get down to +/- .2 and they are burning over 80 grains of powder.
I shot 2 agg records in 2014 (Willamsport 1k) with my dasher. That barrel had a node +/- .05gn.

I use an A&D FX120i scale, it can barely hold to that.

I wouldn't fancy trying to reload to that level with a set of 5-0-5s

 

[KenOath]

I use an A&D FX120i scale, it can barely hold to that.

I wouldn't fancy trying to reload to that level with a set of 5-0-5s

Very true, AnD certainly help hold the .1gn window... I’ve got a .1 node that works but am finding it’s either in or out of the node, after 1000rnds on the barrel its just dropped out over the weekend speed wise, will have to add a tenth or two to get it back up to speed.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I would shoot a small test before each match to decide what to load. 4 powder charges .1gn apart. I would bracket where I thought the right load would be. 2 of those would overlap and form a 6 shot group. I loaded in the middle of that. The charges .1 gn outside of that moved up and down the target poi wise 4" or so. Its all about learning your barrel and what to look for. Most guys tuning at short range are watching the groups poi on the target. They look for groups that dont change poi. Thats exactly what we do at 1k. Other things come into play at distance which is why you will not find a .5 grain window at that distance.

 

[KenOath]

I would shoot a small test before each match to decide what to load. 4 powder charges .1gn apart. I would bracket where I thought the right load would be. 2 of those would overlap and form a 6 shot group. I loaded in the middle of that. The charges .1 gn outside of that moved up and down the target poi wise 4" or so. Its all about learning your barrel and what to look for. Most guys tuning at short range are watching the groups poi on the target. They look for groups that dont change poi. Thats exactly what we do at 1k. Other things come into play at distance which is why you will not find a .5 grain window at that distance.

Yep I usually do test before a match but this time I couldn’t and it bit me in the ass... not the guns fault speed was down 30fps from 160 rnds ago..lesson learned.

 

[Curious]

Yep I usually do test before a match but this time I couldn’t and it bit me in the ass... not the guns fault speed was down 30fps from 160 rnds ago..lesson learned.

I wonder exactly how reliable speed is as a benchmark for harmonic patterns and in turn long range tune?

We so often see people talking about MV nodes as if they are as reliable as powder charge or seating depth and Ive never really understood that. I would have thought speed would be a very individual thing to each barrel?

Are you saying that you have monitored speed over that particular barrel and feel its a good indicator as opposed to in general for a particular bullet?

 

[KenOath]

I wonder exactly how reliable speed is as a benchmark for harmonic patterns and in turn long range tune?

We so often see people talking about MV nodes as if they are as reliable as powder charge or seating depth and Ive never really understood that. I would have thought speed would be a very individual thing to each barrel?

Are you saying that you have monitored speed over that particular barrel and feel its a good indicator as opposed to in general for a particular bullet?

I’ve been able to monitor speed a little easier since buying a Labradar with its ease of set up .. what I did notice recently was after around 900+ rnds on the barrel I put some rounds past the lab before a comp which gave an averaged 2960, previously it averaged 2991. I shot it at 2960 and it shot worse than ever.
I’m yet to get down to the range and run the speed back up to see if accuracy returns but I intend to as soon as possible.