Winchester Model 12 Woes

[tonyb]

I have a buddy with a 20 gauge, and after firing, the bolt just starts to open, and the bolt release button starts to depress and then it stops very solidly, and wont continue to open and eject the spent shell. I can cycle three live rounds through it just as fact as I can operate the forearm with no problem. Any ideas?

Tony.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

Here we go----FWIW.

First if all-----the fact that you can readily cycle live rounds indicates
possibly that all the internal mechanism clearances are probably OK.
More to follow about possibly needing lube.

There is a heavy spring around the magazine tube that gets compressed
when the slide is moved forward. When the gun is fired, this spring gives
the slide a little "rearward kick" that helps speed things. up a bit. If the gun is lubed OK and the shooter shoots with a little rearward pressure on the fore end the gun almost shucks itself.

This is why "the bolt just starts to open, and the bolt release button starts to depress"----the challenge is to figure why the bolt hangs up after this
action.

There are a few mechanism related thing that have to happen---all require
metal-metal sliding or camming---and lube is possibly a factor:
1) The rear of the bolt has to be cammed downward to unlock from the
receiver.
2) The "lifter/carrier" that lifts the shell from the magazine to the chamber
has to be cammed upward against a relatively light spring.
3) The bolt must be pushed rearward over the hammer----against a
very strong main spring.

All the above might be factors in a gun that is working roughly---but
successfully. However the main problem seem to be that the FIRED
shell isn't being fully extracted from the chamber.

There is a "ring"----possibly called a chamber ring, that fits in the front
end of the receiver that is used as the rear end of the chamber---just
behind the partial chamber in the barrel.

This ring should be inspected for pitting or any other problem that might
make it hard to extract a fired case.

You haven't mentioned reloading----resizing of the brass. In some guns
this is a potential problem.

You can learn a little about the slickness of the action by holding an EMPTY, cocked, bolt closed gun in a vertical position and pushing the
slide release button. M12 and M42 guys like to brag about one that
will fall all the way down.

That's about all I know and then some.

A. Weldy

 

[tonyb]

Thanks for taking the time to help with this sir. I have done some reading, and people having the same problem were recommended this fix: after shooting a live round, push the forearm forward slightly, then bring it back to eject the spent shell. Bingo! worked like a charm! So after that, I tried dry firing it and bringing the forearm back, and it would not budge. So, I slowly pushed the forearm forward and heard a "click". I then pulled the forearm back, and it worked smoothly....

 

[Knotwild]

Glad you figured it out. Now for fun, load 7 high brass shells, shoulder it and pull the trigger, but do not release it, and pump it as fast as you can!

 

[tonyb]

Glad you figured it out. Now for fun, load 7 high brass shells, shoulder it and pull the trigger, but do not release it, and pump it as fast as you can!

Lol! No thank you sir!!!

 

[GAnderson]

Thanks for taking the time to help with this sir. I have done some reading, and people having the same problem were recommended this fix: after shooting a live round, push the forearm forward slightly, then bring it back to eject the spent shell. Bingo! worked like a charm! So after that, I tried dry firing it and bringing the forearm back, and it would not budge. So, I slowly pushed the forearm forward and heard a "click". I then pulled the forearm back, and it worked smoothly....

It really should work without having to slightly push the forearm forward and then back...it should shuck back when fired without the need to push it forward first.
LuckyShooter indicated in his post that a person should be able to apply a little rearward pressure on the forearm and when fired it should almost "shuck" itself...this is the correct way it should operate. I have seen several skeet shooters that can operate a Mod 12 as fast as a semi auto...you don't even know they have "pumped" the gun, they are that fast...this is obtained by just what LuckyShooter described...with rearward pressure on the forearm. The fact that it will not operate after firing a shell without applying forward pressure first indicates that the timing is off just a little and needs some attention. This is common in a lot of Mod 12's...find a gunsmith that knows Mod 12's and have them re-time it and it will work properly.

Gene

 

[Lucky Shooter]

tonyb----do you think your friend might be interested in
selling or trading this little 20 to me ?

I kinda like these rough-shucking old timers.

A. Weldy

 

[akajun]

So there is a locking mechanism in the gun that prevents it from unlocking without recoil
It is activated by pushing the forearm forward
It does get funky and full of trash and needs cleaning or it will cause issues.
usually the issue is you can’t cycle rounds unless they are fired because there’s no recoil to unlock it. So id disassemble and clean the hell out of the gun

 

[tonyb]

tonyb----do you think your friend might be interested in
selling or trading this little 20 to me ?

I kinda like these rough-shucking old timers.

A. Weldy

Probably not, he said that it was a very uncommon model having its length of barrel and rib. I don’t know anything about them, just trying to help him out...

 

[tonyb]

So there is a locking mechanism in the gun that prevents it from unlocking without recoil
It is activated by pushing the forearm forward
It does get funky and full of trash and needs cleaning or it will cause issues.
usually the issue is you can’t cycle rounds unless they are fired because there’s no recoil to unlock it. So id disassemble and clean the hell out of the gun

Thanks, I will take a closer look.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Lots of moving parts in a Model 12.