Winchester Actions Pros/Cons

[Toolbreaker]

I'm currently in the middle of a build, but already loosely planning my next (who isn't?). I've been thinking of using a Winchester Model 70 action, for no other reason than I've never owned one. What I'm wanting is an education on the pro's & con's of this action. Seems some are push-feed while some are controlled-feed? Action rigidity? Factory trigger quality? Differences in years? Are they classified alongside Remington as far as long & short actions? Extractor/ejector/firing pin issues? Anything else? If it matters, I'm thinking of building this one as either a 30-06 or 30-06 improved, for informal longer-range paper & varmints (coyotes). Heavy-ish barrel, no reasonable limits beyond my wallet, ect. Any info/opinions are welcome...thanks.

 

[CaptainMal]

For hunting I just love the "controlled feed" model 70 actions. Three of my long-range hunters use that action. My 338, 270 and 7mm Mag are all stainless actions made in the 90's. Prior to that and back to 1964 ( or close to that) the Model 70 action was push feed. They were fine but ordinary. Of course, you can just drop a shell into the action and close the bolt. You cannot do that easily on the claw extracter models (controlled feed) as the extractor plays hell with getting sprung out and over the cartridge rim. You have to load by pushing down the cartridge a bit into the action.

Triggers are good and easily adjusted for hunting use. Mine are all in the 2 - 2 1/2 lb range with no issues.

Now remember, this is a forum with lots of target people on it. They want, as do I, much faster actions and lighter triggers. I hunt. I want that 500+ yard shot on deer with some of my rifles. The model 70 works well. Simple as that.

 

[JohnHenry]

Stuart Otteson's book Benchrest Actions & Triggers indicates that the rigidity of a pre-64 Model 70 repeater action is three times that of a Remington 700 repeater. This is primarily the result of the magazine shroud of the Model 70.

 

[Toolbreaker]

Thanks for the clarification on the extractor dates. I am more interested in the push-feed for my use. I didn't think about them being built in ss...never even crossed my mind, but good to know. I've been hunting whitetail less & less over the years, so I don't really figure that into the equation too much. This'll be just a "want to" project. I'm certainly not expecting the performance of a Bat or Stiller...they're in a league of their own. A lighter trigger is desirable, but keeping it in the 1-2 lb. range should work like a champ for my purpose.

Are the recoil lugs and mag shrouds machined into the receiver on all year models? Or are they attached by another means?

 

[CatShooter]

"... Of course, you can just drop a shell into the action and close the bolt. You cannot do that easily on the claw extracter models (controlled feed) as the extractor plays hell with getting sprung out and over the cartridge rim. You have to load by pushing down the cartridge a bit into the action.

When Winchester re-introduced the claw extractor (controlled feed)... the claw was redesigned.

It easily snaps over the rim - so you can treat it just like a push feed and drop a round in and close the bolt.

 

[Toolbreaker]

"... Of course, you can just drop a shell into the action and close the bolt. You cannot do that easily on the claw extracter models (controlled feed) as the extractor plays hell with getting sprung out and over the cartridge rim. You have to load by pushing down the cartridge a bit into the action.

When Winchester re-introduced the claw extractor (controlled feed)... the claw was redesigned.

It easily snaps over the rim - so you can treat it just like a push feed and drop a round in and close the bolt.

So it's more along the lines of a Ruger M77? The few of those that I've steered weren't too fussy about chambering a single-loaded round.

 

[GSPV]

For hunting I just love the "controlled feed" model 70 actions. Three of my long-range hunters use that action. My 338, 270 and 7mm Mag are all stainless actions made in the 90's. Prior to that and back to 1964 ( or close to that) the Model 70 action was push feed. They were fine but ordinary. Of course, you can just drop a shell into the action and close the bolt. You cannot do that easily on the claw extracter models (controlled feed) as the extractor plays hell with getting sprung out and over the cartridge rim. You have to load by pushing down the cartridge a bit into the action.

Triggers are good and easily adjusted for hunting use. Mine are all in the 2 - 2 1/2 lb range with no issues.

Now remember, this is a forum with lots of target people on it. They want, as do I, much faster actions and lighter triggers. I hunt. I want that 500+ yard shot on deer with some of my rifles. The model 70 works well. Simple as that.

Both the push feed and controlled feed are fine actions for many applications. If I was building a rifle from scratch, though, and money wasn't a limiting factor, I wouldn't acquire one to build a custom rifle on. I would go with a custom 700 clone. Just too much aftermarket out there to ignore.

 

[dryhumor]

The M70 actions have an integral recoil lug, they are more robust. I have 7 at the moment, 5 push feed, 2 control feed, one of which is an FNH action.

The pre MOA trigger is one of the simplest triggers around. The best improvement over it that I've found is a Kepplinger set trigger. I have 2 and really like them, 1 is in a .223 and the other in a .260. Both of those are push feeds.

While the market is more geared up in supporting Remington/clones, there is still good aftermarket stocks around for the M70. There is also a good supply of factory stocks. Patience is the key sometimes.

Good rifles can be found in the long action at decent prices. 270 and 30-06 being the most common.

Many M70 XTR short action cartridges use a long action, with a magazine block to limit the size. The bolt stop determines the length of travel, depending on what cartridge was required.

I wouldn't hesitate to use one (again).

 

[CatShooter]

The M70 actions have an integral recoil lug, they are more robust. I have 7 at the moment, 5 push feed, 2 control feed, one of which is an FNH action.

The pre MOA trigger is one of the simplest triggers around. The best improvement over it that I've found is a Kepplinger set trigger.

Is the Kepplinger trigger hard to fit to the FNH M-70 action?

I have a 2008 Commemorative in 30-06, with a AAA+ presentation stock, and was thinking of adding an aftermarket trigger... I love set triggers.

Putting an aftermarket trigger in the New Haven M-70 could sometimes test one's patience.

 

[drover]

Another plus for the Winchester push-feed action is that quite often they can be picked up for quite a bit less than a Remington action. Also Jewell makes a fine replacement trigger for the M-70 if one desires a trigger with more latitude in adjustment than the factory trigger. although I have never had a problem getting the factory triggers down to a safe and reliable one and one-half lbs. and on a couple even a bit less than that.

drover

 

[jonbearman]

Try to find the youth rifle in a short action.My buddy just got one for 450.00. They make great smokeless muzzleloader actions too.

 

[dryhumor]

The M70 actions have an integral recoil lug, they are more robust. I have 7 at the moment, 5 push feed, 2 control feed, one of which is an FNH action.

The pre MOA trigger is one of the simplest triggers around. The best improvement over it that I've found is a Kepplinger set trigger.

Is the Kepplinger trigger hard to fit to the FNH M-70 action?

I have a 2008 Commemorative in 30-06, with a AAA+ presentation stock, and was thinking of adding an aftermarket trigger... I love set triggers.

Putting an aftermarket trigger in the New Haven M-70 could sometimes test one's patience.

Mine are in pre FN Model 70s.

I did, however, install a Timney in one of the newer FN M70s. Took longer to get it in and out of the stock then put the trigger in.

 

[dryhumor]

Try to find the youth rifle in a short action.My buddy just got one for 450.00. They make great smokeless muzzleloader actions too.

There are good deals out there, that's for sure. I bought a 30-06 XTR barreled action, shipped, and transferred for less than $450. It had 20 rounds through it and looks new.

I have about the same in a 7x57 Mauser, rifle, scope, cases, dies, rings and bases. It looks a bit rough, but so far, I'm down to 1.15 inches with Barnes 150gr TTSX and VV N550.

It was one I bought for the action....

 

[GSPV]

The OP wants to build a 30-06. I don't think that a short action will work. A short action, not one of the pre-85 "short" actions.

I have a nice 260 Remington on a push feed. Nice hunting rifle.

I just wouldn't do a from scratch custom rifle on any factory action...unless I could do truing, bushing firing pin holes, etc, myself.

But, as anyone will tell you, I am a picky sort.

 

[Albany Mountain]

The Post 64 actions don't have as much available parts as say a Remington 700. Make sure you have all the parts rounded up prior to your decision. It would be tough to buy an action and need a box and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search

 

[drover]

The Post 64 actions don't have as much available parts as say a Remington 700. Make sure you have all the parts rounded up prior to your decision. It would be tough to buy an action and need a box and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search

I do not understand your statement pertaining to parts availability for the Model 70.
If one wishes to build on a M-70 there are numerous replacement triggers available.
Barrels are barrels and can be threaded to fit either the M-70 or 700.
Practically anyone who makes stocks makes them for both M-70's and 700's.
M-70's have an integral recoil lugs so it is not necessary to buy aftermarket recoil lugs for them.

What else is there? What is the availability issue?

drover

 

[Toolbreaker]

Thanks, guys. There's a lot of good information here so far. I did some web-surfing last night, but came up short on specific info. Not much beyond the differences in extractor and breech face on different year models.

The pre MOA trigger is one of the simplest triggers around. The best improvement over it that I've found is a Kepplinger set trigger. I have 2 and really like them, 1 is in a .223 and the other in a .260. Both of those are push feeds.

Dryhumor, can you elaborate on the pre-MOA trigger? Also, on the MOA trigger as well? Are both adjustable within reason, or is the MOA a "lawyer-friendly" trigger?

 

[Toolbreaker]

The OP wants to build a 30-06. I don't think that a short action will work. A short action, not one of the pre-85 "short" actions.

I have a nice 260 Remington on a push feed. Nice hunting rifle.

I just wouldn't do a from scratch custom rifle on any factory action...unless I could do truing, bushing firing pin holes, etc, myself.

But, as anyone will tell you, I am a picky sort.

Greg,

I realize that I would be time ahead by just going to an aftermarket action, but locating parts & building to me is 3/4 of the fun on something like this. I can cover any needed machine work to the receiver, plus I'll own & get familiar with an M70. A win-win from my point of view . Could you explain what the difference is in action length as you said? Did Win. change the length in '85? What about the loading port length?

 

[Albany Mountain]

The Post 64 actions don't have as much available parts as say a Remington 700. Make sure you have all the parts rounded up prior to your decision. It would be tough to buy an action and need a box and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search

I do not understand your statement pertaining to parts availability for the Model 70.
If one wishes to build on a M-70 there are numerous replacement triggers available.
Barrels are barrels and can be threaded to fit either the M-70 or 700.
Practically anyone who makes stocks makes them for both M-70's and 700's.
M-70's have an integral recoil lugs so it is not necessary to buy aftermarket recoil lugs for them.

What else is there? What is the availability issue?

drover

Look for yourself, and try to find followers or mag parts

 

[drover]

Thanks, guys. There's a lot of good information here so far. I did some web-surfing last night, but came up short on specific info. Not much beyond the differences in extractor and breech face on different year models.

The pre MOA trigger is one of the simplest triggers around. The best improvement over it that I've found is a Kepplinger set trigger. I have 2 and really like them, 1 is in a .223 and the other in a .260. Both of those are push feeds.

Dryhumor, can you elaborate on the pre-MOA trigger? Also, on the MOA trigger as well? Are both adjustable within reason, or is the MOA a "lawyer-friendly" trigger?

The pre-MOA is a direct acting trigger, it has basically two parts to it - the trigger lever and the sear lever. With respringing they can usually be adjust to around two to two and one-half lbs pull weight to get them lower than this usually requires some stoning on the sear, a job which is best left to a gunsmith familiar with the M-70 triggers.
The MOA trigger is somewhat of a lawyer proof design, they are enclosed in a housing but they do have some adjustment which can be made to them. Again a respring kit will bring them down to about a 2 to two and one-half lb pull weight.Another alternative is an aftermarket trigger such as a Jewell or Timney, both of which can be adjusted lower.

drover