Winchester #41 primers

[spudgun]

Just to ask a question for those using Winchester #41 primers. Using these in my 6mm CM, Savage.

Over the past 3 months I have noticed that I would get a primer strike but no bang.

Didn't think much about it because it was maybe 1 or 2 out of 40 or so rounds.

Yesterday I had 6 rounds out of 15 that didn't fire. I did have some CCI's mixed in the rounds and they all fired. The firing pin strick was a good one (I know the 41's have a thicker base metal then say CCI 400).

Since I have been using 4 different SRP in my Creedmoor loads over the past 6 years. I picked these Winchesters up early last year.

Brought the 6 home and pulled the bullets and primers out of the cases. I identified the faulty primers by the color of the light red mixture.

After I ID'd the primers I placed them on the concrete floor and hit them with a hammer, they went bang. Could be something with the anvil in the primer?

Don't know if I just got a bad batch of primers (1k brick) Lot# SC03344WLC.

Anyone experience issues with Winchester primers?

 

[Old Navy]

Check your firing pin extrusion.

 

[kiwijohn]

Also check you haven't pushed the case shoulder back too far when sizing and the primers are seated well. Check the firing pin assembly isn't creating drag through the bolt by having excessive oil or grease in / on it.

 

[M-61]

After I ID'd the primers I placed them on the concrete floor and hit them with a hammer, they went bang. Could

I know you don’t want to hear it but that’s dangerous.

 

[spudgun]

Also check you haven't pushed the case shoulder back too far when sizing and the primers are seated well. Check the firing pin assembly isn't creating drag through the bolt by having excessive oil or grease in / on it.

I thought of that too.

Bolt and firing pin and spring are good to go.

But if I bumped the shoulder too much wouldn't that effect all primers???

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Sounds like you have something right on the edge, either FP spring, slight over sizing, not seating primers to bottom of pocket, dirty bolt insides, greasy/grimy, etc.

Frank

 

[Bill K]

Did you try a second strike/fire in the chamber ? I would guess not, since you brought them home still intact.
Possibly you are not seating some fully and they are trying to seat with the firing pin strike, but not firing.
Just a though.

 

[kiwijohn]

I thought of that too.

Bolt and firing pin and spring are good to go.

But if I bumped the shoulder too much wouldn't that effect all primers???

It kinda goes with the thicker cup theory. More energy needed so a spring tension issue or slightly shorter shoulder only shows up then.

 

[Doom]

Did you try a second strike/fire in the chamber ? I would guess not, since you brought them home still intact.
Possibly you are not seating some fully and they are trying to seat with the firing pin strike, but not firing.
Just a though.

This is the most likely problem. On the military primers it takes a little more force to set the anvil into the primer. I would bet if you have tried to fire them they would go off.

 

[SecondsCount]

My guess would be that you are not seating them as far as they need to be. I had been having issues with getting Fiocchi SR magnum primers to ignite in my R700. I set my primer seater for another .001" and now they go off without a problem.

 

[jpjulian]

Not #41 primers but just a week ago yesterday I had 4 primers not go off and about a dozen hang fires in my Rem 700 .223. Primers were Federal GM in Winchester cases. 25.1 H335 & Hornady 55 VMAX. I installed a new firing pin spring and today the same load with the balance of the primers from the same sleeve all went bang. The old spring was at least a 1/2" shorter than the new one.

 

[dellet]

Could be a combination of things adding up.

The #41 primer is “Mil-Spec” meaning harder to set off by design. The biggest factor is placing the anvil farther away from the cup.

Often with new brass that is more likely to be sized to have maximum or more headspace creates the light strike problem. Minimum headspace it’s rarely a problem with the cartridge and more likely to be firing pin related.

A second or third strike often ignites the primer.

 

[RegionRat]

I‘ve had to change firing pin springs in two Savage rifles of my own, and have since also seen several Savage rifles with the same problems. These rifles were all produced roughly 5 to 10 years ago, but all their owners were caught by surprise.

This last July, there were two more brand new Savage rifles out on a prairie dog hunt that would fail to ignite primers on both factory ammo as well as handloads. One of these was a common rifle but the other was from their custom shop. Their owners returned them under warranty but I never heard how that turned out.

If nothing else turns out and you determine it is the firing pin spring, I used Wolff springs and selected the highest ones. After installing those springs, my own two model 12s and several others have been 100% reliable with all primers.

 

[spudgun]

Thanks for all your input.

As far as seating the primers, I use a hand primer so I can feel each primer seating and this also tells me when the primer pockets are getting too big.

This Savage has a oddball 2 spring setup for the firing pin. last month I got new springs from Savage as I thought it was a spring issue.

Yes I did try a second hit on all 6 duds. Primers did have a good hit on them and were dented the same as the ones that did shoot.

Loaded up some rounds with CCI 400 primers and will be shooting 1000 yds on Wed morning. We will see what happens on Wed.

 

[spudgun]

Ok, got back from the range and out of 25 rounds only 3 misfires.

Some brass that was pre primed with Winchester, CCI #41 and CCI 400.

The 3 that didn't go bang were Winchesters and that was after 2 hits to the primers. Heavy hits too.

Anyone want to buy a brick of primers????

 

[tjo]

I had the same problem with Winchester #41 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Federals and CCI never had a problem but the #41's are at 20% misfire. Noted that the box says they are for 5.56mm rounds. I think that they must be harder so that slam fires are less likly in gas guns.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Win 41 or CCI 41 are a good test of Savage firing pin impact force.
Might detect marginal performance of the pin.
The "New Style" one piece pin seems to be reported as the "Problem".
The "Old Style" adjustable pin can be optimized for hard/thick primers.

 

[jxb]

No issues at all with Win 41's and yeah they are intended for AR use. If you're not getting light strikes then maybe it's just a bad batch. Get 100 from another lot and try those, if no issues then you know it's likely a bad batch.

I run them in a rifle with a pin that tends to slightly crater on all loads both cci/federal (not pressure related) so I switched it over to 41's and was pleasantly surprised I even get single digit sd/es from those loads same as with other primers. I see no reason to run them in anything that doesn't need the thicker primer. The Win 41's were available so I gave em a try.

 

[Bill K]

Do you still have them no fire, after trying a second hit ? If the fire on second hit, maybe you are not seating the # 41' s as well when priming. They may be just a tad larger and harder to fully seat.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Unless your Savage is an AXIS, you could replace the one piece firing pin with the parts to change to the single spring adjustable pin.
Savage came out with a stronger spring for the multi-spring pin.
It's about 1" inch long and stronger.

What is YOUR pin protrusion?


Have you installed one of those bearing kits?