Wilson Seater Die
- Thread starter DennisH
- Start date
Bullet, cases, powder and primers. 
[br]
Seriously, as far as bullet seating, that's it. Get the micrometer top die. It is twice the cost but much more convenient and made of stainless steel.
[br]Seriously, as far as bullet seating, that's it. Get the micrometer top die. It is twice the cost but much more convenient and made of stainless steel.
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
DennisH,
Personally, I think there is no better Seater Die than the Wilson. I have then in the six calibers I reload for. But personally, I think that mic top is over-rated. I have them on half of my dies and I'm not seeing a HUGE advantage of having the the mic top as the screwdriver adjustment takes me about the same effort to get me to the setting I want. I'm not impressed with the markings on the mic head because I find it not to be as accurate as you'd think and expect it to be. What is important is the beautiful concentricity the Wilson Seaters produce thats better than even my Redding dies. But both those brands are the ticket for me. If you can afford the extra for the Mic Heads, go ahead and buy them. But if money is tight, youi can live without the mic head and it won't take away from the advantage the Wilsons will provide in the long run when precision loading ammo.
Personally, I think there is no better Seater Die than the Wilson. I have then in the six calibers I reload for. But personally, I think that mic top is over-rated. I have them on half of my dies and I'm not seeing a HUGE advantage of having the the mic top as the screwdriver adjustment takes me about the same effort to get me to the setting I want. I'm not impressed with the markings on the mic head because I find it not to be as accurate as you'd think and expect it to be. What is important is the beautiful concentricity the Wilson Seaters produce thats better than even my Redding dies. But both those brands are the ticket for me. If you can afford the extra for the Mic Heads, go ahead and buy them. But if money is tight, youi can live without the mic head and it won't take away from the advantage the Wilsons will provide in the long run when precision loading ammo.
I use the plano steel Wilson Seaters with Sinclair micrometer tops, I know the Sinclair tops are not needed but I do like them, if buying today I would buy the Wilson SS seaters with the built in micrometer adjuster, as for Arbor Presses I use a K&M with seating force attachment, but it is a PIA to adjust the height, a Harrels or Sinclair will work just fine, so will a hammer.
Leaddog
F-Class T/R
Dennis- My Redding Mic top Seater gives me less than .0005 runout (that's less than a half of one thousandth) with my .308. I also have 2 Wilson Seater dies and they don't improve my runout over the Redding. German did a comparison awhile back. See his articles.
The only time I use the Wilson's are at the range when I want to adjust seating depth during load development over my Oehler.
The only time I use the Wilson's are at the range when I want to adjust seating depth during load development over my Oehler.
[br]Charlie Watson said:
Take your pick, they cost about the same.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=37628/Product/Redding-Competition-Seating-Dies-Category-I-Cartridges
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=37656/Product/Wilson-Stainless-Seater-308-Win
Dennis: I have and use: Forster Micrometer benchrest seaters ( my favorite), Redding Benchrest & Wilson's with a Sinclair Arbor press. Can't find any difference in runout after checking the rounds under the Sinclair Concintricity Gauge.
Wilson's do take longer for me to load the same number of rounds, compared to the 7/8 threaded seaters, and there is more chance of spilling powder (for me), since I'm handling the case(s) more than with the threaded dies.
Bottom line: They are all quality seaters, take your pick.
Wilson's do take longer for me to load the same number of rounds, compared to the 7/8 threaded seaters, and there is more chance of spilling powder (for me), since I'm handling the case(s) more than with the threaded dies.
Bottom line: They are all quality seaters, take your pick.
Funny about differing findings people have with dies.
I like the hand dies since I get 30% less runout on average than Forster and Redding threaded dies and I find hand dies are faster for me to use and the best part is that you can feel every little change in neck tension opposed to jamming them in a press with enough leverage to resize a Yugo.
Not convinced any of this will show up on paper and both methods were equally very accurate in the same bench gun when tested side by side several times.
At the big national PPC matches with famous guru's all over the place shooting one-holers measuring in the .00's I never seen any of them using a concentricity gauge so who knows.
I like the hand dies since I get 30% less runout on average than Forster and Redding threaded dies and I find hand dies are faster for me to use and the best part is that you can feel every little change in neck tension opposed to jamming them in a press with enough leverage to resize a Yugo.
Not convinced any of this will show up on paper and both methods were equally very accurate in the same bench gun when tested side by side several times.
At the big national PPC matches with famous guru's all over the place shooting one-holers measuring in the .00's I never seen any of them using a concentricity gauge so who knows.
in2deep: They may have segregated their brass at home before the match, & only take their zero runout brass to the match, so no need to have that problem in the middle of the match.
If I have a couple of rounds with what I consider excess R/O, more than .002", out of a box of 20, it's always the same cases. For those individual cases I write it off as a problem with the brass from the time it was drawn, and they are marked & used for "only the basics".
If my runouts were caused by the seater ( or Redding FL bushing sizer) die, then all the rounds would have R/O, not just 2 or 3 out of 20. JMO
If I have a couple of rounds with what I consider excess R/O, more than .002", out of a box of 20, it's always the same cases. For those individual cases I write it off as a problem with the brass from the time it was drawn, and they are marked & used for "only the basics".
If my runouts were caused by the seater ( or Redding FL bushing sizer) die, then all the rounds would have R/O, not just 2 or 3 out of 20. JMO
I have Wilson SS Micrometer seating dies for my 30BR and 6PPC. I also have Redding or Forster Micrometer seating dies for them and all the other calibers I load. I like the larger adjustment marks on the Forster but, other than that, I have no real preference for the Redding or Forsters as they both work well.
I find the Wilson's clumsy for me to use. In several thousand rounds of loads with them, I have never gotten to where I get a smooth operation with a case full of powder, balance/hold an FB bullet, and slide the die down over it. They are, for sure, a quality piece of equipment, well made, and well-functioning. They are part of a system that is easily portable and with which one can reload just about anywhere. That's the main reason they were designed: loading at the range when traveling to matches or doing development.
As far as run-out comparisons between the Wilson and the Redding/Forster seating dies with sleeve inserts, there should be no difference at all. When I insert a case and bullet into the disassembled Redding/Forster sleeve, the bullet is held as closely and straight as with the Wilson. I don't see any place for the Redding or Forster to introduce run-out when compared to the Wilson. I believe the run-out is coming from somewhere other than the seating die. The seating process using a 7/8" die in a press is blazingly faster than anything I can manage with a Wilson.
For those who are better trained than I, the Wilson is certainly a quality system. If I was "starting over" today, though, I would never go that route again. Other than some load testing at the range, I preload everything I shoot and prefer to do it all using a press and 7/8" dies.
I find the Wilson's clumsy for me to use. In several thousand rounds of loads with them, I have never gotten to where I get a smooth operation with a case full of powder, balance/hold an FB bullet, and slide the die down over it. They are, for sure, a quality piece of equipment, well made, and well-functioning. They are part of a system that is easily portable and with which one can reload just about anywhere. That's the main reason they were designed: loading at the range when traveling to matches or doing development.
As far as run-out comparisons between the Wilson and the Redding/Forster seating dies with sleeve inserts, there should be no difference at all. When I insert a case and bullet into the disassembled Redding/Forster sleeve, the bullet is held as closely and straight as with the Wilson. I don't see any place for the Redding or Forster to introduce run-out when compared to the Wilson. I believe the run-out is coming from somewhere other than the seating die. The seating process using a 7/8" die in a press is blazingly faster than anything I can manage with a Wilson.
For those who are better trained than I, the Wilson is certainly a quality system. If I was "starting over" today, though, I would never go that route again. Other than some load testing at the range, I preload everything I shoot and prefer to do it all using a press and 7/8" dies.
FDHUSTER,
"If my runouts were caused by the seater ( or Redding FL bushing sizer) die, then all the rounds would have R/O, not just 2 or 3 out of 20. JMO"
I am sure you are probably right about that and I have never checked mine case to case but I wonder if you fire a crooked case and it basically forms to your chamber then you run it up in a levered press and it reforms to the shape of your die how can it stay crooked? unless maybe the wall thickness was way off and deformed inside?
From my tests with different seaters on the same set of brass and bullets the seater clearly measurably affected bullet runout on average. I used a Co-Axial press for resizing and that should have eliminated press induced runout but I am still not sure where the differences came from but I am pretty sure the Neil Jones custom seating die had alot to do with it since that was the only equipment change for the test but I never checked the resized brass for concentricity and that may be something I overlooked-Thanks for the reminder.
"If my runouts were caused by the seater ( or Redding FL bushing sizer) die, then all the rounds would have R/O, not just 2 or 3 out of 20. JMO
"I am sure you are probably right about that and I have never checked mine case to case but I wonder if you fire a crooked case and it basically forms to your chamber then you run it up in a levered press and it reforms to the shape of your die how can it stay crooked? unless maybe the wall thickness was way off and deformed inside?
From my tests with different seaters on the same set of brass and bullets the seater clearly measurably affected bullet runout on average. I used a Co-Axial press for resizing and that should have eliminated press induced runout but I am still not sure where the differences came from but I am pretty sure the Neil Jones custom seating die had alot to do with it since that was the only equipment change for the test but I never checked the resized brass for concentricity and that may be something I overlooked-Thanks for the reminder.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.