wilson neck die causing .004 neck runout

[queen_stick]

Not trying to 'beat the horse' with another runout question, but I don't think this is typical with chamber-style dies.

A fired case is as straight as it gets out of the chamber - a half thou (found a few cases out of 100 that had close to .001; everything else was less). However, simply neck-sizing with my wilson die takes the straight case and bends the piss out of it!

Should I try a new bushing? That's about the only idea I have for minimizing the runout. (Maybe it's drilled off-center?)

Anyone ever have a similar issue with the Wilson neck die? Any suggestions?

Walt

 

[chino1969]

Not trying to 'beat the horse' with another runout question, but I don't think this is typical with chamber-style dies.

A fired case is as straight as it gets out of the chamber - a half thou (found a few cases out of 100 that had close to .001; everything else was less). However, simply neck-sizing with my wilson die takes the straight case and bends the piss out of it!

Should I try a new bushing? That's about the only idea I have for minimizing the runout. (Maybe it's drilled off-center?)

Anyone ever have a similar issue with the Wilson neck die? Any suggestions?

Walt

I've never had any problems with Wilson dies.

Chino69

 

[camac]

Walt, I have two suggestions for you to try.

To get that sort of runout I would suggest there is a bit of a reduction in neck size through the bushing and it is not wanting to align correctly with the neck.

Suggestion one is try another bushing a little larger as a step between fired neck size and required finish size (go halfway between your bushing size and the fired neck diameter - if you don't have a micrometer I would suggest a bushing 2 thou larger than the one you have. This tends to reduce runout considerably.

The other is to put your current bushing in a lathe and grind a small taper in one ond of the bushing. This helps the bushing "align and run on straight with the shell". If you want you can then flip th bushing over and finish sizing all the way down (not always required). If you don't have a lathe, an engineering or machinist shop should do this for you for a few dollars.

 

[BoydAllen]

What is the OD of the fired neck, and the size of the bushing? Also, what brand of bushing?

 

[queen_stick]

Boyd:

6br chambered in .272
brass comes out at .271, and I'm using a .269 bushing, which is made by Wilson.

Camac:
The above info is related to your suggestion about using a larger bushing first... I'm only sizing .002 to begin with.
Thanks for the advice about beveling and flipping the bushing, but I'd rather not size all my brass twice (It takes long enough to do it once). I'll certainly keep it in mind as a last resort. Also, I think the Wilson bushings have a slight taper to them from the factory, which is why they claim to put the numbers facing up when installing the bushing. Am I wrong about that?

 

[camac]

Walt -No, you are not wrong about that. If you are using a Wilson bushing they should have a few thou taper if you have the bushing numbers facing up. and if you are within 2-3 thou should work (I think they have a three thou taper)
Your minimal sizing however is a bit confusing. It is hard to imagine how you could get 4 thou shell runout when only sizing 2 thou.

Some bushings I have seen have not been concentric and or do not line up with the chamber but 4 thou seems out of spec and unusual for Wilson. I personally like to let the bushing "float" and self align with the taper. It can make for a very straight round. Perhaps try loosening the screws a little and making sure there is no grit jamming the bushing. If you have a neck wall thickness mike, check the concentricty and wall thickness of the bushing.

 

[Preacher]

The bushing definitely needs to be left floating to help it align with the case neck.
I also put the numbers down so the impressions do not hinder the stopping and move it
at all.... You also may have a mis-cut die thats not fitting as it should....

 

[boltgunluvr]

Had a similar problem with neck sizing until I tried the less expensive Lee collet die. I know a lot of people disregard them, but no problems since.

 

[queen_stick]

. If you have a neck wall thickness mike, check the concentricty and wall thickness of the bushing.

I do. And, that's a pretty good idea. I'll do that tonight and see what I come up with

I do have the bushing floated, but maybe I have a spec of dirt in there. I'll check that out too.

Walt

 

[camac]

Let us know how it goes/measures and good luck.

 

[queen_stick]

I didn't measure the bushing, but I have a good reason.

holstil (forum member here) told me to try lubing the necks. I tired it, and it cut the runout in half. Most cases are coming out with .0015 of runout, but a some are at .002. Nothing has gone over the .002" mark since lubing the necks. I'm more than happy with that result, so I'll run with it...

does anyone else do this?

 

[AlNyhus]

Yes, the necks should always be lubed before running them into a sizing bushing...even if the bushings are the TiN coated ones.

Wilson brand bushings have a .0005 (half a thou.) taper in them.

Hope this helps. -Al

 

[camac]

Yes, the necks should always be lubed before running them into a sizing bushing...even if the bushings are the TiN coated ones.

Wilson brand bushings have a .0005 (half a thou.) taper in them.

Hope this helps. -Al

+1 - Sorry Walt we should all have asked that question first. Well done Holstil.

Lube plus square mouth and good even chamfer on neck will all help immensely for bushing to run on evenly

 

[queen_stick]

Not a problem camac! Thanks for chiming in, and trying to work this out.

Walt

 

[Innovative]

Even though you're using a neck die, I'd measure the length of one of your fired cases "at the shoulder" then compare that to one of your handloads. (It never hurts to check this when you're troubleshooting a run-out problem.)

You might also try another neck bushing with a .001" larger ID, because less downward pressure on the case will almost always reduce run-out.

Keep in mind that another brand (or lot) of brass often has a different neck thickness. I recommend FL resizing with bumping the shoulder back -.001" or -.002" and never more than that with a bolt gun.

- Innovative Technologies