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Why we hunt, even lions FWIW

Olivia Nalos Opre: Why we hunt, even lions
Olivia Nalos Opre 10:24 a.m. EDT July 31, 2015
Real hunters need thriving wildlife, so we help make it happen.

The author with a roan antelope she shot in the Republic of Benin in 2006.(Photo: Yann Le Bouvier)
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Hunting is one of America's favorite pastimes, offering camaraderie, a sense of self accomplishment and ultimately the purest meat source one can put on a family table. More important, hunters play a big role in preserving and protecting our world's great wildlife. That's why it is sad to see front pages taken over by the actions of an unscrupulous professional hunter and a dentist with a record of flouting the rules that ensure hunting and conservation go hand in hand.
In other words, there's a greater picture here than one law-breaking hunt. Through the sales of hunting licenses, equipment and tags, sportsmen in the U.S. contribute $2.9 billion every year for conservation. As a result, many of the most popular wildlife species in America have rebounded from near-extinction levels.
Hunters are happy to pay to improve habitat, protect our streams, rivers and lakes and ensure our wildlands remain healthy. We know that in order for future generations to enjoy our hunting heritage, we need to be responsible stewards of wildlife. Charged with the protection and management of wildlife, state fish and game agencies receive approximately 75% of funding from hunter/angler/shooter dollars paid in license, tag and permit fees, and through the federal aid in the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act.

Hunters generate millions of dollars and provide thousands of volunteer man hours to non-profits such as Ducks Unlimited and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. More than 10 million acres of wetlands have been restored by Ducks Unlimited alone. And organizations like the Sportsmen's Alliance and the Safari Club International lobbying for the regulation of ethical hunting and the North American wildlife conservation model around the world.
Show me a species that has gone extinct from modern, regulated sport hunting. I bet you can't. Other countries such as Zimbabwe are adopting the North American wildlife conservation model to help save the world's great wildlife in the same way it helped American wildlife flourish.
Responsible outfitters do much to protect wildlife globally. In order for an outfitter to continue operating, there needs to be wildlife. Funds from foreign hunters provide an economic stimulus for local residents to protect and manage wildlife. Those dollars fund habitat protection and enhancement and anti-poaching teams that protect wildlife often targeted by suppliers of the black market. When there's an intrinsic value placed on wildlife, residents have a vested interest it.

Consider Kenya, which shut down hunting in 1977. Since then, poaching has decimated wildlife outside Kenya's famous national parks since the ban was imposed. With the absence of outfitters operating in the country and no intrinsic value given to wildlife by residents, Kenya's rhino and elephant populations could disappear within a decade. And, unfortunately, there's no incentive for the community to change that paradigm.
Hunters do not condone the illegal activities or poaching of animals. There is a difference between hunting and poaching that is often missed by the media and general public and the two are often couched together by animal-rights activists as one and the same. .
It may be hard for non-hunters to understand, but hunters consider it our privileged responsibility to care for wildlife by playing our vital role in the great circle of life. We only look to follow in the footsteps of our ancestors and enjoy the great outdoors with friends and family and provide for our families. Ultimately, we strive to keep our forests healthy, our water clean and our wildlife populations abundant so future generations can share and enjoy what we have experienced.

from USA today 7,31

Bob
 
Hunting conservation is a fairy tale ,Fairy tales and lies if repeated long enough become.......
Similar bull.... In this case 1 reintroduced bear and occasional wolf pack + 50 or so Lynx need to be shot as otherwise conservationist hunters won't have any deer to shoot and forest owners logs to sell.
http://theshootinglife.com/blog-entries/conservation/the-impact-of-predators-on-our-forests/
 

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I agree with Bob's post, glad Ducks Unlimited was in mention.
I also understand that arguments can be made in multiple directions.

For instance, a non-hunting type, and dreamer, might argue that our resources could still be used to conserve wildlife -without hunting at all. That we do not actually need to kill lions.
A more conservative, hunter, could argue that anything that turns the public against hunting is bad news for hunting in general. So stop killing lions. Hunt hyenas, or poachers, instead.
Nothing simple in abstracts affecting nature, especially our own..

One thing I've noticed that seems common to all that humans do wrong:
Where we totally ban something, we lose control of it.
The only credible control stems from that allowed, but regulated.
 
Correct Mike and one thing people tend to forget that this fancifull conservation thingy only kinda works when very few people hunt (7% in US much less elsewhere) and there are lots of resources where(US) they do ,in Europe for example predators were virtualy exterminated in the west and are only now being slowly reintroduced by from the east european stock (Commies are by that logic the best conservationists by a long stretch) ,fact is if you had bilions people hunting there would be nothing but rats to hunt.
 
I think there are a couple things missed in the argument against hunting as a conservation effort.

1) that chart doesn't talk about state agencies, state regulated land is were almost all hunting is done. Unfortunately, most in TN s private but the WMAs have seasons. I have never hunted federal land, as most I know of are game preserves. The only exception I know of locally are the cull hunts of AEDC and the draw hunts of Ft. Campbell. Both are overrun with deer and turkey.

2) the value a hunter places on an animal tends to make that animal more plentiful. Look at the number of whitetail and turkey over the last 50 years. Huge increases on both because people cultivate them from sport.

Right now wolves are a serious issue in the states bordering Canada. Though protected, if they continue to take out livestock at rates which hurt farmers bottom line they will be killed off. Open a season on them and let the farmers lease out land for guided hunting and losing 10 -12 cows isn't as painful as they can recoupe some of that loss.

In the European example, why are they being reintroduced?

Do I like the way the Lions thing went down? Nope. FWIW, I have issues with hunting bears over bait and I don't like leg trapping but I understand that it's part of it and as long as it's legal, who am I to say people shouldn't do it?

Edit: regarding the number of hunters. This is probably true, however state agencies shift around quotas and are much more nimble than the feds. Really though, if 50% of this country started hunting big game for year round food then the Zombie Appocolypse has happened and there will be far fewer mouths to feed.
 
Best illustration of how hunting is not conservation , was given by fatboy.

Where natural predators were not exterminated by man they are part of nature that most succefully regulates wildlife , unlike hunters they take down the easy prey the weak, not the trophy antlers (which by the way lead to longterm reduction in animal size as the strongest and the largest are killed off , while natural evolution leads to larger animal as the strongest survive and procreate)

Why are natural predators a problem if you are a conservationists , surely you can throttle down some of your hunting to allow for natures hunters?Nope it hurts the bottom line

Why are species being reintroduced ? seriously conservationists ? Wildlife is not just whitetail,duck and turkey.
Rather ask why eastern europe has that much more plentifull wild life than the west .Because hunters were only the commie party bigwigs very few in number.

Wolf impact farm animals so should be killed off that is probably again conservationist aproach .
 
I'm not sure if you're playing Devils advocate or if you genuinely believe hunting has no part in the growth and or conservation of certain species. The two actual hunting organizations in the chart you provided are almost 100% funded by hunters. They do more to protect habitats and create ground which is conducive to growing healthy animals. RMEF water conservation efforts for the AZ Elk heard is a prime example, as is their purchase of hundreds of thousands of acres that won't be developed so there is habitat.

What gets missed is the masses. People need large farms, both crop and livestock to sustain the population. Nucence animals that hurt these operations get killed off. Is the bottom line important? Of course, and to think otherwise is fooling yourself.

Most people don't care about anything beyond their cheetos and YouTube. They could give two sh!ts about the whitetail herd until one comes crashing through their car window or it's eating their freshly planed flower garden. Once people are personally affected (positively or negatively ) that animal/species has value. What we, as hunters and non-hunters alike, fail to value gets eradicated. You may not like it, but it's a fact of life.

To each his own. I respect your opinion. I hope you and yours the best today.

Chris
 
Micmac,
Your limited exposure to the American conservation model shows. I am not going to spend time describing how this model works, you can look it up yourself. The facts are there are more wild animals in North America than anytime in the last 125 years. South Africa was virtually devoid of game by the 1950's. Sport hunting has brought these populations back. Your Eastern European conservation model is based on the population not having firearms, fuel or leisure time to enjoy hunting. Communism is the best conservation model? Really?

One of the designs of trophy hunting is to ensure that animals reach maturity and beyond before being killed. This was part of the plan by Theodore Roosevelt and the other wise sportsmen when they created the Boone and Crockett Club. They wanted a way to recognize hunters who sought out the most mature and largest male animals rather than just killing an animal, regardless of sex or age. Allowing an animal to reach full maturity was one of the reasons America recovered from the market hunting days so quickly. SCI has also adopted a similar policy of recognizing those who seek out mature animals.

In most of the developed world, it is mainly hunter's monies that fund conservation efforts, fish and game agencies, anti-poaching efforts and also habitat preservations. I don't see many non-hunters spending money on such projects.

One last point regarding predators, I am the Alpha predator ;D
Scott
 
micmac,

Predators do not segregate between the healthiest or weakest animals. They segregate by what they can catch. If there is a herd of bull elk and a wolf pack gets on them they will take down whichever one they can get a hold of. Often times, late in the year, it is the largest bulls that get drug down because they are weakened from spending time fighting over their harem and mating rather than eating. As hunters in NW MT we hear of this often and see it as well. Conservation works, in the later 1990’s MT went from allowing the shooting of all antlered bulls, as long as they had 1 point longer than 6 inches, to branch antlered bulls only. More people are shooting “trophy” (300+) bulls than ever before. The hunting around here was outstanding until they released the land pirahnas into the wild and our deer/elk/moose populations have gone down to very low numbers.
 
Yagingaboy said:
micmac,

Predators do not segregate between the healthiest or weakest animals. They segregate by what they can catch. If there is a herd of bull elk and a wolf pack gets on them they will take down whichever one they can get a hold of. Often times, late in the year, it is the largest bulls that get drug down because they are weakened from spending time fighting over their harem and mating rather than eating. As hunters in NW MT we hear of this often and see it as well. Conservation works, in the later 1990’s MT went from allowing the shooting of all antlered bulls, as long as they had 1 point longer than 6 inches, to branch antlered bulls only. More people are shooting “trophy” (300+) bulls than ever before. The hunting around here was outstanding until they released the land pirahnas into the wild and our deer/elk/moose populations have gone down to very low numbers.



And we in Washington are seeing the effects of land pirahnas being released.
 
Lets ask how much damage this cat done, before he became famous.I never heard of a good lion in the wild. This is becoming a joke by the NEWS media.
 
Yagingaboy said:
micmac,

Predators do not segregate between the healthiest or weakest animals. They segregate by what they can catch. If there is a herd of bull elk and a wolf pack gets on them they will take down whichever one they can get a hold of.
LOL ;D
You do realize what you are saying, that predators segregate not because they want to but because that is the easier for them of course that does mean that also take the alphas but you can bet that in vast majority of cases the weakest in heard are the easy prey. Predators don't give a f*ck if the antlers are large or would make a nice trophy or are of impressive size for a facebook picture, vanity is our thing.
 
micmac said:
LOL ;D
You do realize what you are saying, that predators segregate not because they want to but because that is the easier for them of course that does mean that also take the alphas but you can bet that in vast majority of cases the weakest in heard are the easy prey. Predators don't give a f*ck if the antlers are large or would make a nice trophy or are of impressive size for a facebook picture, vanity is our thing.

This is how it goes, having a nice conversation and then someone from a former Soviet bloc nation drops the "F" Bomb! What happened to mutual deterrence?
:o
 
from another forum:

Turns out, Cecil the Lion was no choirboy. Photos have surfaced of Cecil in the act of killing and eating Gary the Gazelle. Gary was a favorite of both locals and visitors at Zimbabwe's Hwange National Park, where he delighted onlookers with his trademark leap, while clicking his heels. Gary was 12 years old and leaves his beloved wife, Greta Gazelle, and their 8 (unnamed) offspring. Gary's long-time friend and confidante, Zeke the Zebra said, "A lot of people are crying over Cecil lately, but, let me tell you, I've lost a lot of friends and family to him. He was an animal. I won't be crying no tears."
 

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micmac said:
Yagingaboy said:
micmac,

Predators do not segregate between the healthiest or weakest animals. They segregate by what they can catch. If there is a herd of bull elk and a wolf pack gets on them they will take down whichever one they can get a hold of.
LOL ;D
You do realize what you are saying, that predators segregate not because they want to but because that is the easier for them of course that does mean that also take the alphas but you can bet that in vast majority of cases the weakest in heard are the easy prey. Predators don't give a f*ck if the antlers are large or would make a nice trophy or are of impressive size for a facebook picture, vanity is our thing.

micmac, People that have a lifetime of experience with wildlife and the outdoors are having a civilized discussion with you. If you just want to drop F-bombs on people, take it somewhere else. Besides, if you actually want to convince people to see your point of view, insulting them is the quickest way to get them blow you off and ignore what you have to say.

The hunting of large mature animals has no effect on helping or hurting the genetics of a free ranging herd. That's because that's selecting on phenotype not genotype. Look it up. They're two completely different things. A large mature buck, bull, etc has already sired a boatload of females by the time the hunter finally takes him. His genes have already been spread throughout the herd over the course of his life. If you're actually interested in the genetics of deer herds, Dr. Grant Woods has written about the subject.

Lastly, the whitetail population in the US pre-European settlement was 1-2 million animals nationwide. The population now is 25-30 million. Like it or not, hunter conservation works.
 

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